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When families un-adopt a child (2018)

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Re: When families un-adopt a child (2018)

#91

Post by notch656a »

mucholove wrote: post #90
notch656a wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could you possibly know what an 15+ year commitment is like before going into it? Did you have kids prior to adopting? I don't think it's weird at all some people wish they could 'return' their kids. It's virtually impossible to truly know what it's like until you're in it.

It probably isn’t weird to think about returning the kids…but it is certainly weird to do it. More than weird, it is disrespectful, cowardly, and inconsiderate. When you decide to have kids by adoption or by natural birth—they should never be abandoned. No matter what they do—you are with them for those ~18 years and hopefully many more. Unlike a spouse—kids are dependents. And your commitment is to make sure they ha…

If you don't want your kids are you saying it's better off to keep them? Isn't adopting them out a way to make sure they have someone they can depend on?

Seems to me it's more "disrespectful/weird/cowardly/inconsiderate" to make some kid suffer for years living in a home where they're unwanted.

Re: When families un-adopt a child (2018)

#92

Post by TameAntelope »

notch656a wrote: post #91
mucholove wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It probably isn’t weird to think about returning the kids…but it is certainly weird to do it. More than weird, it is disrespectful, cowardly, and inconsiderate. When you decide to have kids by adoption or by natural birth—they should never be abandoned. No matter what they do—you are with them for those ~18 years and hopefully many more. Unlike a spouse—kids are dependents. And your commitment is to make sure they ha…

If you don't want your kids are you saying it's better off to keep them? Isn't adopting them out a way to make sure they have someone they can depend on? Seems to me it's more "disrespectful/weird/cowardly/inconsiderate" to make some kid suffer for years living in a home where they're unwanted.

Not wanting your kids isn’t really a feeling you should act on, nor is it a feeling society ought to let you indulge.

Re: When families un-adopt a child (2018)

#94

Post by notch656a »

TameAntelope wrote: post #92
notch656a wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't want your kids are you saying it's better off to keep them? Isn't adopting them out a way to make sure they have someone they can depend on? Seems to me it's more "disrespectful/weird/cowardly/inconsiderate" to make some kid suffer for years living in a home where they're unwanted.

Not wanting your kids isn’t really a feeling you should act on, nor is it a feeling society ought to let you indulge.

If "society" feels responsible for the welfare of these kids, then society should recognize a kid is better off in a home where they are wanted. This is so obvious I don't understand why it even needs explained.

Re: When families un-adopt a child (2018)

#95

Post by rayiner »

Permit wrote: post #36
rayiner wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

What an unusually low-value comment from an otherwise high-value commenter. Do you take issue with the label “child free” or with the fact that some couples would prefer not to have children? Or maybe with the idea that an organization advocates for these people?

All of the above. I’m from a Muslim country—in Islam, getting married and having children (if you’re able) is a moral duty. I was never a practicing Muslim, but I believe that this view is basically correct. Society as a whole needs to be engaged in the project of raising the next generation, and that breaks down if having children is treated as an individual choice. Raising kids in America—especially in urban areas among more educated people—is just such a sad, atomized experience. Not only compared to back home in Bangladesh, but even my own upbringing in America.

America has been good to my family but I’m genuinely worried whether we came here in some sort of terminal stage of American society. I’m terrified my own kids are going to adopt these ideas. What would have been the point of leaving all our friends and family behind to immigrate here if our family just dies out on this stupid continent?

Re: When families un-adopt a child (2018)

#96

Post by rayiner »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #31
rayiner wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Reproducing for the sake of doing so is clearing becoming passé [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]. High level, the world needs less people [7]. Lots of roads to get there, all valid as long as they don't cause harm in the process. Live your best life, and for many, that means being childfree. If you're a decent, responsible parent, more power to you, as long as you're willing to shoulder the costs of your children. Culture and…

> Lots of roads to get there, all valid as long as they don't cause harm in the process. Live your best life

I understand the axioms that lead to this assertion, but I reject the premise. It’s a terminal-stage evolution of western individualism. You don’t just have an obligation to yourself. The “child free” deprive their parents of grand kids, their siblings’ children of nieces and nephews, their neighbors of a bustling joyful society full of children.

From a technologist point of view it’s also just sad and defeatist. At the limit, we could solve climate change by just all killing our selves. You’re proposing to do that, just slower.

Re: When families un-adopt a child (2018)

#97

Post by toomuchtodo »

rayiner wrote: post #96
toomuchtodo wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reproducing for the sake of doing so is clearing becoming passé [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]. High level, the world needs less people [7]. Lots of roads to get there, all valid as long as they don't cause harm in the process. Live your best life, and for many, that means being childfree. If you're a decent, responsible parent, more power to you, as long as you're willing to shoulder the costs of your children. Culture and…

> Lots of roads to get there, all valid as long as they don't cause harm in the process. Live your best life I understand the axioms that lead to this assertion, but I reject the premise. It’s a terminal-stage evolution of western individualism. You don’t just have an obligation to yourself. The “child free” deprive their parents of grand kids, their siblings’ children of nieces and nephews, their neighbors of a bust…

Children owe their parents and extended family nothing, as they had no choice being brought into the world. What they do with their life is entirely their choosing. Not everyone considers children joyful, but instead a burdensome, unnecessary obligation they can opt out of in nations with strong human rights protections. There is a difference between suicide as a species and an individual voluntarily choosing to not reproduce (for economic, lifestyle, or other reasons).

Life is lived and enjoyed, not owed.

I assume these differences in views are cultural, and will continue to drift as cohorts age in and age out of the populace.

Re: When families un-adopt a child (2018)

#98

Post by notsureaboutpg »

da39a3ee wrote: post #79

The title sounds like it’s going to be discussing a general adoption phenomenon, but the example it starts with is just crazy religious people in utah. I don’t think that normal-minded people can learn anything applicable from people whose minds and lives are dominated by superstitious delusion.

No post body was provided.

Re: When families un-adopt a child (2018)

#99

Post by david38 »

mucholove wrote: post #90
notch656a wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could you possibly know what an 15+ year commitment is like before going into it? Did you have kids prior to adopting? I don't think it's weird at all some people wish they could 'return' their kids. It's virtually impossible to truly know what it's like until you're in it.

It probably isn’t weird to think about returning the kids…but it is certainly weird to do it. More than weird, it is disrespectful, cowardly, and inconsiderate. When you decide to have kids by adoption or by natural birth—they should never be abandoned. No matter what they do—you are with them for those ~18 years and hopefully many more. Unlike a spouse—kids are dependents. And your commitment is to make sure they ha…

“No matter what” covers a lot of territory. What if your adopted child seriously harms your new baby because they have severe attachment disorder? Are psychopathic, whatever?

Lots of children available for adoption have all kinds of problems that standard parents can’t deal with.

Abandoning is one thing. Recognizing you’re in way over your head is another.

Re: When families un-adopt a child (2018)

#100

Post by tenuousemphasis »

notch656a wrote: post #94
TameAntelope wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not wanting your kids isn’t really a feeling you should act on, nor is it a feeling society ought to let you indulge.

If "society" feels responsible for the welfare of these kids, then society should recognize a kid is better off in a home where they are wanted. This is so obvious I don't understand why it even needs explained.

Given the number of children in foster care or worse, the choice isn't between being in a home where you're wanted and one where you're not wanted, it's being in a home where you're not wanted or not in a home. Which do you think is worse for a child?
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