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Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

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Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#91

Post by propesh »

331c8c71 wrote: post #80
propesh wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know that there has been Russian vs. Ukrainian fighting for nearly a 1000 years (maybe more)? Russians were slaughtering Ukrainians before the world knew of the North American continent.

Could you be so kind to provide some references supporting your view?

Pale of Settlements is a good start.

The brutal murders of Jews and Poles occurred during the Khmelnytsky Uprising of 1648–1657 in present-day Ukraine.[22] Modern historians give estimates of the scale of the murders by Khmelnytsky's Cossacks ranging between 40,000 and 100,000 men, women and children,[23][24] or perhaps many more.[25]

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#92

Post by empressplay »

bbatha wrote: post #78

My problem with Mearsheimer and the other realists is they have a very poor explanation why the status quo changes. Yes great power competition explains why tensions are high but does little explain why and when they spill over to war. Notably absent from this article is any discussion of "why now?". Commenters in the thread are saying that his 2015 article on the subject could be written last week. That's precisely…

The answer to 'why now' is COVID. People in the west are already worn-out by the pandemic and are in no mood to engage in a new conflict. Putin has simply picked an advantageous moment to make his move.

Also China. Even Biden recognizes China is a problem and is making moves to attempt to manage them (renewed alliance with Australia, domestic manufacturing). China has likely made some guarantees to Russia with regards to its economic security, in exchange for seeing how the West puts up with its annexation of more of Ukrainian territory.

And there's the recent Ukrainian rumblings about wanting to take Crimea back, which certainly did not help matters. Speaking of which, Russians in Crimea have been expensive to supply, and I would point back to how we're all taxed because of COVID.

There are certainly other variables, but the timing is not random. Putin certainly has not suddenly 'gone crazy'.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#93

Post by steveylang »

shkkmo wrote: post #27

> We should be pivoting out of Europe to deal with China in a laser-like fashion, number one. And, number two, we should be working overtime to create friendly relations with the Russians. The Russians are part of our balancing coalition against China. If you live in a world where there are three great powers—China, Russia, and the United States—and one of those great powers, China, is a peer competitor, what you wan…

Could we actually forge a tight alliance with Russia, while maintaining our alliances in western Europe?

In strictly political terms, I'll side with Germany, France, UK, etc. which all have bigger GDP's than Russia.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#94

Post by propesh »

331c8c71 wrote: post #80
propesh wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know that there has been Russian vs. Ukrainian fighting for nearly a 1000 years (maybe more)? Russians were slaughtering Ukrainians before the world knew of the North American continent.

Could you be so kind to provide some references supporting your view?

The borderlands suffered annual Tatar invasions. From the beginning of the 16th century until the end of the 17th century, Crimean Tatar slave raiding bands[56] took about two million slaves from Russia and Ukraine.[57] According to Orest Subtelny, "from 1450 to 1586, eighty-six Tatar raids were recorded, and from 1600 to 1647, seventy."[58] In 1688, Tatars captured a record number of 60,000 Ukrainians.[59] The Tatar raids took a heavy toll, discouraging settlement in more southerly regions where the soil was better and the growing season was longer. The last remnant of the Crimean Khanate was finally conquered by the Russian Empire in 1783.[60]

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#95

Post by empressplay »

dragonwriter wrote: post #81
bbatha wrote: post #78

My problem with Mearsheimer and the other realists is they have a very poor explanation why the status quo changes. Yes great power competition explains why tensions are high but does little explain why and when they spill over to war. Notably absent from this article is any discussion of "why now?". Commenters in the thread are saying that his 2015 article on the subject could be written last week. That's precisely…

> since countries can't join NATO if they have territorial conflicts This rule... isn't. Heck, countries have been admitted to NATO with ongoing territorial disputes with NATO countries .

Right, so NATO could have decided to admit Ukraine at any time and then immediately attempt to force Russia out of Crimea, a scenario which I expect kept Putin awake at night.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#96

Post by mcguire »

dragonwriter wrote: post #81
bbatha wrote: post #78

My problem with Mearsheimer and the other realists is they have a very poor explanation why the status quo changes. Yes great power competition explains why tensions are high but does little explain why and when they spill over to war. Notably absent from this article is any discussion of "why now?". Commenters in the thread are saying that his 2015 article on the subject could be written last week. That's precisely…

> since countries can't join NATO if they have territorial conflicts This rule... isn't. Heck, countries have been admitted to NATO with ongoing territorial disputes with NATO countries .

How about we just say that Germany and France are not going to let Ukraine join while it has territorial conflicts?

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#97

Post by georgia_peach »

dragonwriter wrote: post #51
warner_of_doom wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am all for making Poland and the Baltics a hard red-line front that we protect against Russia. But, taking Ukraine from Russia in this non-neutral manner is just wrong. We can easily hold the Polish and Baltic fronts. And, Russia can live with that too. We can then trade as usual.

> But, taking Ukraine from Russia in this non-neutral manner Taking Ukraine from Russia? What have Russia the right to take Ukraine from (checks) Ukraine?

The same "right" the US would have had with Cuba if Khrushchev didn't remove the missiles, or the same "right" the US exercises when a small country with oil ponders denominating it in a different currency.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#98

Post by 331c8c71 »

propesh wrote: post #91
331c8c71 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you be so kind to provide some references supporting your view?

Pale of Settlements is a good start. The brutal murders of Jews and Poles occurred during the Khmelnytsky Uprising of 1648–1657 in present-day Ukraine.[22] Modern historians give estimates of the scale of the murders by Khmelnytsky's Cossacks ranging between 40,000 and 100,000 men, women and children,[23][24] or perhaps many more.[25]

> has been Russian vs. Ukrainian fighting for nearly a 1000 years (maybe more)?

I'm still waiting for the source suggesting that ukranian and russians has been fighting for nearly 1000 years. That's what you wrote.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#99

Post by dang »

propesh wrote: post #72
9999px wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sort of braindead mindset is exactly why learning dialectical materialism is so important. You're essentially denying causality. A bobcat is cornered by a man with a stick, the bobcat lashes out, you blame the bobcat. You walk around a corner to see a kid hit another kid. You blame the one who did the hitting because you don't care to investigate what was happening before you rounded the corner. There are decade…

Deleted.

It looks like your account has been using HN primarily, if not exclusively, for political and ideological battle. That's not allowed here, regardless of what you're battling for, because it's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for. You've been breaking the site guidelines badly in other ways too. Therefore I've banned the account.

If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#100

Post by steveylang »

deanCommie wrote: post #45

People in the US have a hard time having an intelligent discussion about subjects like this because of the "Well it's different when the US does it". John is right about all of this for sure: > Right, but saying that America will not allow countries in the Western hemisphere, most of them democracies, to decide what kind of foreign policy they have—you can say that’s good or bad, but that is imperialism, right? We’re…

> What is unsaid is does the world HAVE to behave this way? Are humans capable of cooperation beyond petty short-sighted resource grabs? If the US ceased it's imperial ambitions, and all discrimination and capitalist exploitation ended, would we be able to build a harmonious society where we cooperate on prosperity?

Because unfortunately fear is pretty much our biggest driver as a species. So many of these unforgivable actions are done in varyingly twisted degrees of self-interest to protect our 'national interests' or our 'way of life', big country or small.

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