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25 Gbit/s internet as a normal customer

init7.net

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Re: 25 Gbit/s internet as a normal customer

#91

Post by hocuspocus »

jagrsw wrote: post #21
digitallyfree wrote: post #12

I would expect such a service to ban hosting services on the "private" plan, or have strict conditions on what is considered acceptable use. However I see nothing of that sort in their contracts with the exception of this line in their Contractual Conditions. "3. Fair Use Policy The Internet subscriptions for private customers are intended for normal personal use. Init7 reserves the right to temporarily or permanentl…

There's big competition esp. in the Zurich area. I don't understand all historical peculiarities behind this, but it has something to do with monopolistic position of Swisscom - their old national telecom company. As a part of de-monopolization they made it lease links to any willing ISP (bit-stream access?), so many ISPs arose, and they have relatively "cheap" and advanced offerings: 1Gb/s, 10Gb/s, 25Gb/s, fixed IPs…

Unbundling (the copper lines) and open fiber deployments are different things.

Many municipalities still haven't gotten fiber deployments from the local utilities, and in practice you can be stuck on Swisscom's fiber. It's not too bad since several ISPs are also able to use it: for instance Sunrise before (I'm not sure they still allow it), but also Init7 (their Hybrid7 offering). However an ISP like Salt uses only open fiber, at least for now.

Salt and Sunrise had signed an agreement to push for extensive open fiber deployments by 2027. But then the deal blew up when Sunrise got acquired by UPC, since they'd rather use the existing DOCSIS infrastructure in the less dense areas.

Swisscom was going to push its own deployment as well (even though G.fast is not bad) and Salt was now interested in chipping in, but soon after the Comco has stopped Swisscom from using P2MP which is a big setback in its strategy to cover sub-urban areas. I understand the decision to enforce P2P deployments and give smaller ISPs a fair chance but it's definitely going to hinder the speed of new deployments. I believe we're rich enough, and we should mandate (and fund) open deployments in all these sub-urban municipalities that won't do it on their own.

Re: 25 Gbit/s internet as a normal customer

#92

Post by vel0city »

TheSoftwareGuy wrote: post #51
bullen wrote: post #30

The problem with >1GB/s is the energy you need to saturate it. 10GB/s needs a 10+W router and you'll need atleast 50W of compute behind that. On lead-acid if you want long battery life and a good uptime you'll need atleast 4x 50Ah batteries. 25GB/s does not scale without waste unless you are ok with having 10x lead-acid batteries in the room where you live/sleep because that energy is heating. Dunno about the hydroge…

I'm confused, 50W is not a lot of electricity for an outlet. Why would you need batteries?

Battery backups for when the power goes out. There's a high correlation to the power going out to the needs of being able to communicate. If your main modes of communication go down during an emergency things can get pretty bad.

Re: 25 Gbit/s internet as a normal customer

#93

Post by bombcar »

notimetorelax wrote: post #80
bombcar wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have that router, and it can do up to about 2.5Gb/s with actual routing. I have it on a 10GBe direct connect to my "main" 4 port switch, but that just means it can take in multiple unrouted LAN segments. Once you start doing much esoteric the speed slows down, if you get off the fast path it can be pretty intense (thought they do sell bigger ones that can route more packets).

I like that Mikrotik are very transparent about it. On their site they publish performance test results in various configurations.

Agreed, it's nice to have the number right there and they don't make claims beyond what it actually can do (and arguably, when you're up at 10GB+ your router and your switch shouldn't be the same hardware anymore).

Re: 25 Gbit/s internet as a normal customer

#94

Post by jsjohnst »

AnotherGoodName wrote: post #44
jsjohnst wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You also want something better than cat5 for home wiring. For 25Gbps? Or are you meaning for the 1gbps you have? If the former, of course, but otherwise Cat5e can handle 10GbE if you have good connections and the loop length isn’t too long.

Cat5 and cat5e are different though. Cat5 struggles with 1gbps.

> Cat5 and cat5e are different though.

Yes, for sure. 99% of the time, based on personal experience, the person either doesn’t realize the difference or is just incorrectly using the term Cat5 to mean Cat5e. It’s pretty rare you’ll find the former even in older homes (again, my experience based on living in the US). This is why I intentionally used the term Cat5e in my reply. Cat5 was deprecated by Cat5e back 20+ years ago, long before the average US home began getting wired with Ethernet. Further, many (majority?) of Cat5 cables older than 10 years old actually meet the 5e requirements, just weren’t certified specifically.

> Cat5 struggles with 1gbps.

Like with my original point, that depends on the length and the quality of the connections. Inaccurate blanket statements mislead or worse, so I encourage you to avoid it.

Re: 25 Gbit/s internet as a normal customer

#95

Post by solatic »

jewel wrote: post #6

What sort of opportunities would open up if this sort of connection were ubiquitous? I could see netbooting your desktop to avoid having to buy a hard drive. Also instead of downloading large game assets they could just stream on demand. (Even though downloads would go really fast anyway.) 4K and 8K video streams are already done reasonably at 100 mbps. Some sort of 3D point cloud streaming?

If you're uploading streaming video directly to consumers, without an intermediary cache (e.g. YouTube), your upload needs can essentially reach infinity. It's just a question of how many people are trying to view the stream, at what level of quality, at the same time. If you need an intermediary cache, you're more likely to be censored by the intermediary or the political jurisdiction in which the intermediary is found.

25 Gb/s, in this light, is small.

Re: 25 Gbit/s internet as a normal customer

#96

Post by bcrl »

hnov wrote: post #62
sidpatil wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're wiring a home today, I would 100% use OS2 over CatN unless you also need PoE. Won't you end up with a bunch of media converters everywhere though?

If I were wiring a home, I'd probably run some multimode fiber alongside CAT6 or maybe even 2 shielded CAT6 to support a secondary LAN like for surveillance cameras.

Avoid multimode. Unlike singlemode fibre it needs upgrading as speeds increase.

Re: 25 Gbit/s internet as a normal customer

#97

Post by jsjohnst »

mlyle wrote: post #33
jsjohnst wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You also want something better than cat5 for home wiring. For 25Gbps? Or are you meaning for the 1gbps you have? If the former, of course, but otherwise Cat5e can handle 10GbE if you have good connections and the loop length isn’t too long.

Yup. My whole house has Cat5E and it all works at 10gbps; though I chose to run 5gbps just to have some margin. Most hard drives will keep up with a full gigabit pipe, too, on a sequential write. I think the poster is exaggerating a bit.

My home is a mix of topologies, but everything that is twisted pair copper that was pre-existing is Cat5e and has no trouble fully saturating 10gbps (30-40ft average loop length). I have cheap RG6 handling 2.5Gbps where I didn’t have an existing cable run and didn’t want to run new cable and it can fully max out the connection too based on iperf testing. In my basement, I also have fiber (for >2 meter spans) and twinax (for 1-2 meter spans) in 10Gbps and 40Gbps too.

Re: 25 Gbit/s internet as a normal customer

#98

Post by YaBomm »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #53

25 Gbit sounds nice, but even my 1 Gbit line is mostly wasted. I use a Raspberry Pi as my torrent box which seems to cap out at 7 MB/sec write speed. Even Steam tends to only download at 30-50 MB/sec most of the time. People tend to grossly overestimate how much bandwidth they need, especially non-technical people. Even a 100 Mbit connection is more than capable of letting a family of five all stream Netflix at the s…

For the Rpi, the storage device might be your limiting factor... (not the storage device itself, but connection to it from the Pi)

Re: 25 Gbit/s internet as a normal customer

#99

Post by bullen »

eof wrote: post #45
bullen wrote: post #30

The problem with >1GB/s is the energy you need to saturate it. 10GB/s needs a 10+W router and you'll need atleast 50W of compute behind that. On lead-acid if you want long battery life and a good uptime you'll need atleast 4x 50Ah batteries. 25GB/s does not scale without waste unless you are ok with having 10x lead-acid batteries in the room where you live/sleep because that energy is heating. Dunno about the hydroge…

Lithium has much longer battery life? At least in terms of number of cycles.

You don't need cycles, unless power outages are frequent. (good point but power outages are probably going to be correlated to our capacity to make lithium batteries at all)

Lithium has ~half the longevity compared to lead-acid unless you heat/cool them like Tesla to keep them at a stable temperature (too high/low and the longevity drops like a stone because of tiny impurities between the metal sheets).

NiMH is actually my preferred battery tech now, but it's WAY too expensive for the Ah you need for anything beyond say a maglite solitare LED (awesome torch btw).

Lithium and high power vehicles are completely meaningless for the wider human population in the long run because electricity is NOT an energy source.

Re: 25 Gbit/s internet as a normal customer

#100

Post by heywire »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #58
joshstrange wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dang, that's rough. I'll fully admit I got super lucky. My ISP is MetroNet and you wouldn't necessarily think Lexington, KY would have fiber at all or if they did that it would be a good deal but thankfully MetroNet serves my area and has great prices. I wish they were in OH as well so I could move my parents over to them, they are stuck on Spectrum.

They're in Ohio now in a limited area: https://getmetronetinternet.com/availability/#metronet-ohio They're expanding aggressively in those areas, too.

Yep, we have Metronet here and it has been pretty great (North of Dayton)
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