Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

France to Build Six New Nuclear Reactors

politico.eu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 450 posts

Re: France to Build Six New Nuclear Reactors

#91

Post by dmead »

HideousKojima wrote: post #10
socialdemocrat wrote: post #7

I am skeptical to current nuclear power, would have liked Molten Salt Reactors instead. However I see leaders having to do something. Environmentalists are blocking construction of more wind power, and crisis with Russia makes gas less accessible. France has a relatively good track record on nuclear power. They may pull this off. 2035 is a really long time to wait for new power to the grid though.

>Environmentalists are blocking construction of more wind power Environmentalists really are their own worst enemies. When I was in high school near San Diego about 15 years ago, there was a huge amount of opposition to a solar power project. From environmentalists. There was a solar power plant out in Imperial County and the environmentalists were protesting the high voltage lines that would bring the power into San…

tortoises and their back yards I'm sure.

Re: France to Build Six New Nuclear Reactors

#92

Post by Gwypaas »

thatfrenchguy wrote: post #89
Gwypaas wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And say 3% makes the entire country renewable? What is the better use of money then? Energy is energy, and even better if it is vastly simpler to generate with less headaches to take care of afterwards.

There's no even medium-size grid in the world today that runs on renewables that aren't hydro.

South Australia is getting close. [1] Give it a year or two.

> Sometimes the sun does shine and the wind does blow. That’s most of the time in South Australia, apparently. The average share of wind and solar during October was 72%. For 29 out of 31 days, 100% of the power used in South Australia (SA) was renewable. The sky didn’t fall, the grid didn’t collapse, and the apocalypse is not nigh.

[1]: https://cleantechnica.com/2021/11/04/solar-wind-72-of-south-...

Re: France to Build Six New Nuclear Reactors

#93

Post by chrisseaton »

isomel wrote: post #52
chrisseaton wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't environmentalists' argument that we should reduce our power consumption, rather than destroying the environment to keep providing so much power? That's not as crazy a position as you make it out to be is it?

Yeah, humans have lived fine before fossil fuels so we can do it again, right? Just kill half of them. And let 90% of the remaining population work in the fields like slaves. Easy /s

Wildest strawman I’ve ever seen on this site. I’ve never even remotely seen anyone argue for what you’re mocking.

And it’s not even anything to do with fossil fuels - it’s about renewables.

Re: France to Build Six New Nuclear Reactors

#94

Post by chrisseaton »

goodpoint wrote: post #76
chrisseaton wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't environmentalists' argument that we should reduce our power consumption, rather than destroying the environment to keep providing so much power? That's not as crazy a position as you make it out to be is it?

The overton window of HN is skewed so far into techno-optimism that you get downvoted into oblivion for mentioning reducing energy usage. Edit: surprise, I'm also getting silent downvotes, as if I needed further proof.

People will advocate permanently destroying a habitat before they consider taking a bus instead of driving.

Re: France to Build Six New Nuclear Reactors

#95

Post by grammers »

d--b wrote: post #71

Keep in mind that the presidential election is in 3 months. Macron wants to show he is being pragmatic. Nuclear energy allows to reduce carbon emissions without sacrificing the economy. It's particularly smart in this moment of tension with Russia, as Europe depends a lot on Russian energy. But whether this happens or not remains to be seen.

Exactly. Such reactors cannot be built in a day so right now this is just a political move for the upcoming election.

Re: France to Build Six New Nuclear Reactors

#96

Post by adventured »

rgmerk wrote: post #65
andrewinardeer wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Australia, it can be argued that The Green Party's blanket ban and refusal to even consider let alone use nuclear has contributed significantly to more carbon in the air as we have instead relied on coal for the last 50 years.

This is just plain wrong. Absent environmentalism or non-economic considerations (hello Jervis Bay) no nuclear power would ever be built in Australia. We have way too much cheap, conveniently located coal.

Both of those things can be correct.

Without environmentalist pressure, coal would be used indefinitely. And nuclear isn't being built or considered because the environmentalists won't support it.

Accordingly they can get positive credit for the first and negative for the second.

Re: France to Build Six New Nuclear Reactors

#97

Post by coenhyde »

rgmerk wrote: post #65
andrewinardeer wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Australia, it can be argued that The Green Party's blanket ban and refusal to even consider let alone use nuclear has contributed significantly to more carbon in the air as we have instead relied on coal for the last 50 years.

This is just plain wrong. Absent environmentalism or non-economic considerations (hello Jervis Bay) no nuclear power would ever be built in Australia. We have way too much cheap, conveniently located coal.

Maybe so. But imo we should have built a strong nuclear industry including refining, power generation and waste disposal. Instead of digging rocks out of the ground and selling them abroad. We should refine them in Australia, lease the uranium to consumer nations, then charge them to store the waste in Australia. We are the safest nation on Earth for nuclear waste disposal. By storing the waste we would help foster adoption in places where waste disposal isn't appropriate. Not to mention the waste is still valuable, it can be refined again.

Think SaaS reoccurring revenue for waste disposal but we can take that waste, refine it and lease it again. Then earn more reoccurring revenue for its storage. Rinse and repeat. We could corner the market for Uranium.

Re: France to Build Six New Nuclear Reactors

#98

Post by parkingrift »

HideousKojima wrote: post #10
socialdemocrat wrote: post #7

I am skeptical to current nuclear power, would have liked Molten Salt Reactors instead. However I see leaders having to do something. Environmentalists are blocking construction of more wind power, and crisis with Russia makes gas less accessible. France has a relatively good track record on nuclear power. They may pull this off. 2035 is a really long time to wait for new power to the grid though.

>Environmentalists are blocking construction of more wind power Environmentalists really are their own worst enemies. When I was in high school near San Diego about 15 years ago, there was a huge amount of opposition to a solar power project. From environmentalists. There was a solar power plant out in Imperial County and the environmentalists were protesting the high voltage lines that would bring the power into San…

Seems that green Democrats would rather throw themselves into a volcano than accept anything less than their 100% absolute perfect solution.

New York keeps shutting down nuclear reactors... and then offsetting the power losses with natural gas. No one could have possibly predicted this?

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=47776

Congrats!

Re: France to Build Six New Nuclear Reactors

#99

Post by panick21_ »

Gwypaas wrote: post #59
socialdemocrat wrote: post #7

I am skeptical to current nuclear power, would have liked Molten Salt Reactors instead. However I see leaders having to do something. Environmentalists are blocking construction of more wind power, and crisis with Russia makes gas less accessible. France has a relatively good track record on nuclear power. They may pull this off. 2035 is a really long time to wait for new power to the grid though.

Last time around it was negative learning by doing for France[1]. I wonder what magical efficiency gains they will manage to muster compared to Flamanville [2], Hinkley Point C[3] and Olkiluoto 3[4] which the state owned french nuclear industry is building. Well, more than magical "simplification", "cost cutting" and "modular design" shown on a powerpoint before reality hits again. [1]: https://www.sciencedirect.com/…

Nuclear reactors have massive learning effects, the more you build with the same people and organization the cheaper it is. Nuclear own massive scale is its own worst enemy.

If we could just build 500MW smaller Molten Salt cooled reactors we could literally build them like gas plants.

Re: France to Build Six New Nuclear Reactors

#100

Post by goodpoint »

jeromegv wrote: post #80
goodpoint wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Additionally any twitter bot or "crisis actor" paid by an oil company can claim to belong to the category. It's far too easy to blame "environmentalists" for everything.

Lots of NIMBY anti-development people would consider themselves environmentalist. They are in fact conservatives people that would rather keep the status quo and are against free market for housing and want their assets to inflate to insane prices.

Unsurprisingly.

Moreover, politicians passed unpopular laws e.g. ecotaxes or bans and direct blame onto "environmentalists".

It can be a powerful tactic to drive a wedge between general population and "environmentalists". Ultimately to protect certain companies.

Post reply on HN