Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Theses on Sleep

guzey.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 102 posts

Re: Theses on Sleep

#91

Post by tomjakubowski »

guzey wrote: post #62
Karawebnetwork wrote: post #57

> Think about sleep 10,000 years ago. You sleep in a cave, in a hut, or under the sky, with predators and enemy tribes roaming around. You are on a wooden floor, on an animal’s skin, or on the ground. I would argue that some of my best nights were during outdoor survival situations where I slept in small shelters that kept my warmth and on a hard surface. Personally, the sound of a familiar bird species will lull me…

Are you seriously arguing that sleeping out in the nature, potentially with dangerous animals around you, on bear skins, with several friends (on the same bear skin?) is as comfortable as sleeping on a modern mattress in your home?

Like OP, some of the best nights of sleep I've had in my life have been while camping (in good weather, mind you). Different strokes maybe.

Hunter gatherers thriving on 5-7 hours aren't sleeping on modern mattresses either.

Re: Theses on Sleep

#92

Post by desmosxxx »

antisthenes wrote: post #72
guzey wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How does your essay explain that I feel horrible for 2-3 hours after waking up if I don't get enough sleep? So, you are saying that when you don't get enough sleep, you feel fine most of the day, except for the first 2-3 hours after waking up? This is pretty weird and I don't have a good explanation for you.

Yes, on a good day it takes me maybe 30-40 minutes to get going. On a day when I don't get enough sleep, it takes several hours, negating whatever "time savings" there are from forgoing sleep.

hey this is me too. never found a solution to it and for me I require more sleep to maximize my time because otherwise i feel terrible and am unable to function, especially in the first half of my day.

On a whole, I feel like there is another side of this coin which is that being hungry might not be bad for you, but if you're hungry enough it can be very unpleasant.

Re: Theses on Sleep

#93

Post by rich_sasha »

ksdale wrote: post #30
rich_sasha wrote: post #7

The whole “natural” thing is maybe a good source of ideas to try, but that’s it. A list of things that are totally unnatural: brushing teeth, antibiotics, painkillers, surgery, hip replacements, antidepressants, infant mortality below 10%, not dying of an ear infection, clean chlorinated water...

I feel like a bunch of the points on this list actually have an analog in Guzey's argument? Brushing teeth, for example - we do it to have a "clean" mouth, but a lot of people use mouthwash until the bacterial environment in their mouth is a barren wasteland, which is also unhealthy. Moderation is good. Antibiotics are the same - they can also kill the flora in our intestines, and they can also lead to the creation o…

Right, agreed. Moderation is good.

I’m just saying, just being “natural” is not sufficient for something to be good. It may be, and perhaps as we overstreamline our lives, we discard some good natural things, but I’m not throwing away my toothbrush just yet.

Re: Theses on Sleep

#94

Post by Karawebnetwork »

guzey wrote: post #62
Karawebnetwork wrote: post #57

> Think about sleep 10,000 years ago. You sleep in a cave, in a hut, or under the sky, with predators and enemy tribes roaming around. You are on a wooden floor, on an animal’s skin, or on the ground. I would argue that some of my best nights were during outdoor survival situations where I slept in small shelters that kept my warmth and on a hard surface. Personally, the sound of a familiar bird species will lull me…

Are you seriously arguing that sleeping out in the nature, potentially with dangerous animals around you, on bear skins, with several friends (on the same bear skin?) is as comfortable as sleeping on a modern mattress in your home?

Yes.

Re: Theses on Sleep

#95

Post by Karawebnetwork »

aesthesia wrote: post #70
Karawebnetwork wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flickering will be there no matter the color. Red ones will be better than white or blue ones, but that's it. They still have the opposite of a relaxing effect.

Connect an LED directly to a battery (as in many cheap flashlights) and there will be no flicker.

The human retina will perceive flicker above 200 Hz even if you won't consciously be aware of it.

There are a lot of anecdotal stories out there where people get a reduced sleep quality after switching to LED lighting in the bedroom. Is there something deeper to the story? Quite likely. The question now would be whether this affects everyone or if those people are outliers.

Re: Theses on Sleep

#96

Post by quesera »

Karawebnetwork wrote: post #56
James_Henry wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's a dim LED with just red light or maybe just red and orange then it's probably just as good, no?

The flickering will be there no matter the color. Red ones will be better than white or blue ones, but that's it. They still have the opposite of a relaxing effect.

Flicker is a side effect of a common method of variable LED dimming. It's not intrinsic to the technology. You can run an LED at a low level with zero flicker.

But I'm thinking of the tea light replacements that are sold for use in jack-o-lanterns. They intentionally "flicker" in a candle-like way, instead of the kind of flicker you describe.

LED devices can also produce a wide range of color temperatures (esp when filtered and diffused), so there's no inherent blue light problem.

Re: Theses on Sleep

#97

Post by dataangel »

> Finally, there’s moon shining right at you and all kinds of sounds coming from the forest around you.

Tell me you've never been in a remote area without telling me you've never been in a remote area. If you go somewhere truly far from any developed city (I first experienced it in rural China) you will often find at night that it is BLACK. Can't see your hand right in front of your face BLACK. I remember someone starting a blow torch to work on a car in the middle of the night and it was like a rave the light show was so intense against how deep the darkness was.

Re: Theses on Sleep

#98

Post by gexla »

porknubbins wrote: post #87
gexla wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My anecdote is that when I get migraine headaches, I have to lay down and try to sleep. I have to lay on hard ground. I can't stand being on a mattress for some reason. Maybe it's about feeling more control over the position of my body.

To me there is something deeply comforting about inertness. I hate the springyness in matresses so much I got a natural latex mattress, which I found out most people get because of allergies, but to me its like a kinetic sensory deprivation chamber- just absorbs all movement and doesn’t reflect it back.

Okay, and the sensory deprivation helps you sleep? I suppose that's generally what we're headed for. Turn off the lights. Set the temp to a certain level.

The hard ground isn't giving either, but you feel it. ;)

I also can't deal with pillows when I have a migraine. Though I can't sleep without something under my head. I usually just roll up a towel or something. As I said before, I think it's about having precise control over body position.

Re: Theses on Sleep

#99

Post by coyotespike »

Karawebnetwork wrote: post #57

> Think about sleep 10,000 years ago. You sleep in a cave, in a hut, or under the sky, with predators and enemy tribes roaming around. You are on a wooden floor, on an animal’s skin, or on the ground. I would argue that some of my best nights were during outdoor survival situations where I slept in small shelters that kept my warmth and on a hard surface. Personally, the sound of a familiar bird species will lull me…

I would love to hear more about the survival situations you did (I'm guessing intentionally) - and about the bear skins!

Re: Theses on Sleep

#100

Post by coyotespike »

raflemakt wrote: post #79
Karawebnetwork wrote: post #57

> Think about sleep 10,000 years ago. You sleep in a cave, in a hut, or under the sky, with predators and enemy tribes roaming around. You are on a wooden floor, on an animal’s skin, or on the ground. I would argue that some of my best nights were during outdoor survival situations where I slept in small shelters that kept my warmth and on a hard surface. Personally, the sound of a familiar bird species will lull me…

I lived in a lavvo from august 2015 to April 2016, and it was the most awesome year ever (including in terms of sleep). I had a nice setup with a platform covered with sheep skins, and two sleeping bags (it reached -15C that winter in southern Norway). Back when I was younger (10-14) I slept outside more than half of the days of the summer. In the barn, under trees, in trees, far into the forest, often accompanied by…

That period from 10-14 sounds mindblowing! Magic. I'm guessing your folks had a summer house in Norway or something - I love that you had that freedom.
Post reply on HN