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Thank You, Valve

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Re: Thank You, Valve

#91
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? You can totally build an aimbot using nothing but image recognition.

Image recognition is way too slow to help with aiming.

Maybe check out some existing ones before confidently making such a claim? E.g. https://github.com/petercunha/Pine. IIRC there are even high quality image recognition-based aimbots for sale; can’t find them right now.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Valve predates Steam by a number of years, and Steam wasn’t always in the dominant position it’s in now.

Yes, and now we are living in a reality where Steam has taken over ~all meaningful, non-niche digital PC games distribution. They got into a monopolistic position during a small time window of inflection where the market was transitioning from physical to digital distribution. It's meaningless to talk about the past in these circumstances, unless something truly drastic happens to open another such window to let some…

You’ve flown far beyond the original comment’s context, which was Valve’s entire history from way before there was Steam. I don’t know whose point you think you’re responding to.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#93

I dig most of this article, and I do applaud the work Valve is doing for the Linux gaming ecosystem, but I draw a line at supporting kernel level anti-cheat drivers. That trend in gaming bothers me to no end, and I refuse to knowingly install a game that features one. The presence of 15 year old script kiddies using aimbots does NOT IN ANY WAY justify having kernel level control over my machine, Linux or otherwise. V…

It's not like video card companies don't have black boxes in the kernel. Maybe nVidia will make an anti-cheat API and then it's gonna be a choice between "have a 3d accelerator at all" and "clean kernel."

Re: Thank You, Valve

#94
post #50
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish you to play a competitive multiplayer game filled with cheaters. You don't know if your opponent is good or cheating. It simply kill all the fun. If it won't work on PC, multiplayer gaming will simply moves to consoles. Great, now you are stuck with a closed standard, with a closed OS, where you can't run the programs you want.

First, anti-cheat software doesn't guarantee anything of the sort. There are still plenty of cheats out there. Second, this was already a solved problem since we could run our own servers and kick whoever we wanted. But this has largely been taken away, to the point that people don't know it ever existed.

most regular players want MMR and matchmaking so they can play against similarly-skilled teams and can see themselves improve by winning against better opponents over time. They don’t want to have to weed through a lobby list to maybe get into an evenly-matched game, or maybe get destroyed by someone leagues better than them.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#95
post #30

Is it too little, too late? Microsoft now owns a lot of the biggest game franchises through the Activision and Bethesda acquisitions, and I wouldn't be surprised if they actively block Proton support by using UWP or Windows-specific anticheat.

Possible. Although a lot of gaming companies that got bought never did amount to much after the acquisition.

If Microsoft locks down their environment, I believe they are in danger of losing their dominance on PC.

I have yet to meet a developer that likes UWP and I believe it is dead by now. There is WinUI 3, but I fail to see how they learned from their mistakes. They believe they can work it out with rebranding, but I heavily doubt it. Don't know if my info is current, but you can only deploy WinUI through their store. I just shorty looked into it, laughed a bit and went elsewhere. I have already left the MS stack behind completely.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#96
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I played competitive video games seriously I would absolutely want them to take cheating seriously and take any necessary measure to stop it. At the same time I think they should also make the most serious kernel/driver level anti-cheat software optional. If you don't to want to install it you can still play the game, just not on any of the 'pro' servers. Think of it a bit like doping tests in sports. As long as y…

The serious cheats in competitive games these days don't rely on hacking the game anymore. They use a separate computer connected taking your HDMI out as an input and then controls your mouse and keyboard inputs. They use ML models and OpenCV. You watch the second computer's monitor and it draws huge boxes around things you shoot and it assists your aim. It doesn't even have to be a PC game, you can do the same with…

[deleted]

Re: Thank You, Valve

#97
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wild how this turned from "I don't want a game-related kernel-level driver in my system" to "I don't want China spying on me" in one reply. You lost me there to be honest, if you think the "true" purpose of anti-cheat drivers is for a foreign power to spy on us boring ordinary uninteresting people. But you are correct in saying that it's a personal choice for everyone to make for themselves, based on how much they va…

> Wild how this turned from "I don't want a game-related kernel-level driver in my system" to "I don't want China spying on me" in one reply. Fair criticism. I used Tencent as the example as they are one of the most prominent offenders. I don't trust any company to install these drivers, period, Chinese or otherwise. > You lost me there to be honest, if you think the "true" purpose of anti-cheat drivers is for a fore…

So here's a question:

What is it about games that makes you particularly worried about this? Why is that an industry that is more susceptible to this kind of "nefarious" activity as you put it?

Wouldn't it make more sense for business-related products to do this, since the odds of being on a computer that has actual useful information to steal would be much, much higher?

Why would a company invest in this kind of tech, in a highly visible field, full of people who will go over it with a fine-toothed comb (gamers are obsessive), for what seems like a very low-percentage hit rate on obtaining information?

Curious about your viewpoint on this..

Re: Thank You, Valve

#98
post #50
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish you to play a competitive multiplayer game filled with cheaters. You don't know if your opponent is good or cheating. It simply kill all the fun. If it won't work on PC, multiplayer gaming will simply moves to consoles. Great, now you are stuck with a closed standard, with a closed OS, where you can't run the programs you want.

First, anti-cheat software doesn't guarantee anything of the sort. There are still plenty of cheats out there. Second, this was already a solved problem since we could run our own servers and kick whoever we wanted. But this has largely been taken away, to the point that people don't know it ever existed.

> First, anti-cheat software doesn't guarantee anything of the sort. There are still plenty of cheats out there.

It's not a binary thing. There will always be cheats. It's about raising the bar to be difficult enough for enough people to not bother. If you want an example of the effect cheating can have on games, look at Fall guys. It shipped as a unity game, was immediately reverse engineered and the game was effectively unplayable on PC [0]. They added easy anti cheat, and the problem effectively disappeared overnight.

> this was already a solved problem since we could run our own servers and kick whoever we wanted.

Banning someone from your server isn't solving the problem, it's pushing it onto another person. Abuse of these systems was rampant too, I have distinct memories of being kicked from battlefield and counter strike servers on the early 00's because I killed someone and they didn't like it. Having community run servers also has its one share of problems when combined with live service games. At best, you force community servers to keep up to date, or more than likely you end up with dozens of fragmented versions of games that are incompatible with each other, and if I want to play on server A with this group and server B with another, I need multiple copies of the game installed.

[0] https://www.gamerant.com/fall-guys-massive-cheater-problem/

Re: Thank You, Valve

#99
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I played competitive video games seriously I would absolutely want them to take cheating seriously and take any necessary measure to stop it. At the same time I think they should also make the most serious kernel/driver level anti-cheat software optional. If you don't to want to install it you can still play the game, just not on any of the 'pro' servers. Think of it a bit like doping tests in sports. As long as y…

The serious cheats in competitive games these days don't rely on hacking the game anymore. They use a separate computer connected taking your HDMI out as an input and then controls your mouse and keyboard inputs. They use ML models and OpenCV. You watch the second computer's monitor and it draws huge boxes around things you shoot and it assists your aim. It doesn't even have to be a PC game, you can do the same with…

Do you have some links for this? It sounds super interesting.

Re: Thank You, Valve

#100
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stream gaming is inherently safe from cheating too, because the game logic and rendering is not computed directly by the player so there's no way they can 'cheat' in a conventional sense.

What? You can totally build an aimbot using nothing but image recognition.

And when we get to the point that those are available to anyone with $40 and a credit card they'll be handled. Until then they're a theoretical attack for all intents and purposes.
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