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How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

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Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#91

Post by javajosh »

samstave wrote: post #45
Ekaros wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sewing of sail fabric is something different. You need to use heavy duty needle and force it through the fabric. It is somewhat similar I would imagine as dealing with leather. Wood work deals with big pieces comparatively.

Quoted post unavailable.

I bet weavers fought like hell against textile industrialization. I'm not an historian, but there must have been such a conflict, and given the scale of it I bet it was bloody. Industrialization freed them from this toil, but at the cost of centralizing the means of production. It is a strange thing, progress.

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#92

Post by missedthecue »

dsr_ wrote: post #62
missedthecue wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and it really has nothing to do with the price of clothing

It does, at least a little. If you give someone a $20 shirt, causing yourself a little embarassment, that's not quite the same commitment to charity as giving them your $20,000 car.

Think of it this way; my shirt would have a lot more value to me than value to you. Therefore, if I gave you the shirt off my own back would show a high degree of selflessness.

That's what the phrase conveys.

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#93

Post by Someone »

bregma wrote: post #88
Fenrisulfr wrote: post #3

There's a great book about the progression of clothing, textiles, and fabric being scarce and expensive to commonplace and cheap. It runs through the various technological innovations (think cotton gin, but plenty more), culture, and economics. The Fabric of Civilization by Virginia Postrel. Great quote about Viking sail ships: "Viking Age sail 100 meters square took 154 kilometers (60 miles) of yarn. Working eight h…

Plucking sheep. You shear sheep, not pluck them. If you're experienced you can sheer about 100 sheep per day. You can skirt and wash the fleece of those same 100 sheep on day two. How are you spending the remaining 598 days? While I'm not an expert at spinning (although my spouse may be), I would venture that 12 or 15 village women carding and spinning 10 to 12 hours a day would be able to go from sheep to sail in ab…

Shearing requires advanced technology that the Vikings may not have had. https://www.griggsagri.co.uk/blog/sheep-shearing-a-brief-his...:

“The sheep were shorn using very basic tools, such as metal, or sharp glass, fashioned into an implement to take whole clumps of wool off at once. Over time, the tools were adapted into scissor-like blades to make the job easier.”

I think you can call that plucking. People use tools to pluck grapes, too.

And 100 a day without a powered tool? Is that realistic?

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#94

Post by jacobolus »

hprotagonist wrote: post #2

Something that continually just blows my mind is how new spinning wheels are. The most plausible range of time of arrival of the wheel in European contexts is between the mid-1200s to about 1340, which means that textiles produced previously to that were made with drop spindles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spindle_(textiles)#Hand_spindl... That includes things like clothing, but it also includes more staggering ide…

How much faster is a spinning wheel (of typical 500-year-old design, say) vs. a drop spindle, in the hands of someone with 20 years of spinning experience? And can the spinning wheel produce yarn that has similar quality?

From skimming around online, it seems that expert spinners get extremely fast with a drop spindle, and can produce higher quality yarn. But I can’t find a definitive answer about the comparative speed.

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#95

Post by dimitrios1 »

duxup wrote: post #5
Fenrisulfr wrote: post #3

There's a great book about the progression of clothing, textiles, and fabric being scarce and expensive to commonplace and cheap. It runs through the various technological innovations (think cotton gin, but plenty more), culture, and economics. The Fabric of Civilization by Virginia Postrel. Great quote about Viking sail ships: "Viking Age sail 100 meters square took 154 kilometers (60 miles) of yarn. Working eight h…

It doesn't strike me as surprising that the sail would take longer than the boat. The skill to make a boat is impressive but the mechanics of getting it done aren't enormous. Fabrics and sewing, gathering and prepping those materials and the tedious work seems enormous.

I encourage you to watch some videos online of traditional (mostly hand-tools) Shipwrights. Even with the use of a bandsaw to do the rough milling, it is an arduous and lengthy process. Shipwrights also work with some of the longest planks of wood any form of woodworking does. In the days before machines, there would be scores of workers simply preparing the wood and getting it ready for the ship building.

My hunch would be the reason shipbuilding is faster is it is easier to scale to multiple workers, and there are parts you can do in parallel.

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#96

Post by pdw »

bregma wrote: post #88
Fenrisulfr wrote: post #3

There's a great book about the progression of clothing, textiles, and fabric being scarce and expensive to commonplace and cheap. It runs through the various technological innovations (think cotton gin, but plenty more), culture, and economics. The Fabric of Civilization by Virginia Postrel. Great quote about Viking sail ships: "Viking Age sail 100 meters square took 154 kilometers (60 miles) of yarn. Working eight h…

Plucking sheep. You shear sheep, not pluck them. If you're experienced you can sheer about 100 sheep per day. You can skirt and wash the fleece of those same 100 sheep on day two. How are you spending the remaining 598 days? While I'm not an expert at spinning (although my spouse may be), I would venture that 12 or 15 village women carding and spinning 10 to 12 hours a day would be able to go from sheep to sail in ab…

12-15 women working for 3 months is close to 4 person-years of work. That's higher than the numbers in Fenrisulfr's quote.

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#97

Post by 3pt14159 »

javajosh wrote: post #91
samstave wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I bet weavers fought like hell against textile industrialization. I'm not an historian, but there must have been such a conflict, and given the scale of it I bet it was bloody. Industrialization freed them from this toil, but at the cost of centralizing the means of production. It is a strange thing, progress.

I'm 90% sure you're telling a subtle joke, but on the off chance you're not "luddite" is worth a Google.

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#98

Post by Someone »

javajosh wrote: post #91
samstave wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I bet weavers fought like hell against textile industrialization. I'm not an historian, but there must have been such a conflict, and given the scale of it I bet it was bloody. Industrialization freed them from this toil, but at the cost of centralizing the means of production. It is a strange thing, progress.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite:

“The Luddites were a secret oath-based organisation of English textile workers in the 19th century, a radical faction which destroyed textile machinery”

Re: How much did a tunic cost in the Roman Empire? (2021)

#99

Post by wongarsu »

javajosh wrote: post #91
samstave wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I bet weavers fought like hell against textile industrialization. I'm not an historian, but there must have been such a conflict, and given the scale of it I bet it was bloody. Industrialization freed them from this toil, but at the cost of centralizing the means of production. It is a strange thing, progress.

The Luddites were a movement of British textile workers who fought industrialization, at first with sabotage then with open rebellion that was violently put down [1].

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luddite

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