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On Covid

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Re: On Covid

#91
post #43
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When hospitals are not choked with unvaccinated people, that's the time to stop obsessing. I'm still reading too many stories of people dying of non-covid reasons because they can't get medical care due to unvaccinated people taking up those resources. EDIT: all parts of each country are not equal. In the Bay Area, the hospitals are doing (mostly) fine.

At what point do we blame our broken health care system that seemingly can’t handle something as mild as omicron? Now.

Why not look at it from the reverse? If our healthcare system that deals just fine with flu outbreaks etc every year can’t cope with Omicron… maybe it isn’t as mild as everyone says it is?

Re: On Covid

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immunocompromised people are allowed to tut-tut until they can actually go outside without significant risk of death.

Personally, I would lock my children in a cellar for 15 years if that's what it took to protect those who have compromised immune systems. Talk about not being able to defend yourself!

Good lord. I know this is hyperbolic but do you have any idea the affect that 15 years of isolation would have on children? And you are willing to place the well-being of random strangers over your own children? You seem to think that your comment is morally superior, but that idea is abhorrent and evil to the idea of being a parent. You should be ashamed to be a parent.

I would love to see how your children feel about that.

Re: On Covid

#93
* I am not a doctor, this comment is for entertainment purposes only *

I do think it's time to start thinking about what the end of the pandemic looks like:

1. Sars-Cov-2 will be around forever. People will continue to get sick and die from it.

2. There will be more peaks on the infection and death charts. These are real people with real families. It will suck for them.

3. At some point one of the peaks will be the highest. 6 months or so after the highest peak is reached, the pandemic will be over. We'll only see this in hindsight. It may take a year to tell that the last peak was the highest. The disease won't be over, but it won't be the single most important thing in everyone's life. It will drop from the #1 or #2 cause of death down to #10 or #20, eventually. This may be different around the world. Countries that have had low numbers of infections and deaths may have huge spikes of infection and deaths.

4. There will be more variants, and they are not guaranteed to be milder, especially to individual infected people. There may be variants that affect children more. I personally don't think that is likely, but there are no guarantees.

5. Early in the pandemic, there was a lot of judgment on people who got sick. We'll have to let go of this. Speaking down to people doesn't help. Judging people doesn't help.

6. Some people will continue to wear masks for a long time. Some people won't feel comfortable in groups. Give them time. Don't force the issue. Give them space. I will probably wear a mask in crowded public places for a long time (grocery stores, airports, public transport).

7. We'll be learning about this disease for a long time. Hopefully government bodies learn how to plan and communicate better. Hopefully we step up our disease vector surveillance and tracking efforts

8. We won't get common understanding back unless people work for it. Dividing people with moralistic and righteousness-based messages is currently a winning strategy. I won't call this a "both sides" thing, I call it a "human nature" thing. I don't really understand why some people are standing on "their rights" - I guess it plays better than saying "I'm scared"

Re: On Covid

#94
post #9

Thousands of Americans are losing their lives every day to Covid. New cases are MUCH higher than they were at any point in 2020 or 2021 (though it looks like we may finally have crossed the peak of this wave). I'm sorry, but it isn't over yet. I wish it was. However wishing it or asserting it doesn't make it true. This was a sensible argument to make in July 2021 when vaccines were more effective and cases were liter…

Have you talked to the parents of young children? Because those are exactly the people that are over it. A)kids are at statistically zero risk of covid unless they have cancer or something B) we have all already had covid because little kids are germ factories 3)the vaccines have been available for over a year now so you have had ample time to get one if you want to 4)the masks and lack of social engagement for children is very detrimental to their development.

I was completely on board with the first year or so of all these restrictions. But I am done sacrificing my child’s well being to spare the elderly. If the vaccines work, then why are people still afraid? I believe they work, so I am not afraid. I don’t understand why even the most ardent vaccine evangelists are still cowering in fear if they truly believe in their effectiveness.

The case count has exploded so what? Just think how many people actually have it but never bothered getting tested because it was so mild. The death rate is the same/similar to when we had a fraction of the cases we currently have.

Re: On Covid

#95
post #93

* I am not a doctor, this comment is for entertainment purposes only * I do think it's time to start thinking about what the end of the pandemic looks like: 1. Sars-Cov-2 will be around forever. People will continue to get sick and die from it. 2. There will be more peaks on the infection and death charts. These are real people with real families. It will suck for them. 3. At some point one of the peaks will be the h…

Your point 1 is missing a big disclaimer.

1. Sars-Cov-2 will be around forever because the population votes for it to be that way.

Re: On Covid

#96
post #30

I've seen a few posts like this recently and I have to confess: I don't get it. What does "it is time to stop obsessing about Covid" mean? I have small children so I'm still living in some kind of COVID purgatory but for the majority of the population COVID hasn't really been an obsession for quite a while. People are dining indoors, they're traveling, socializing... life more or less is back to normal. Schools are s…

It's one out of a large number of propaganda lines or "NPC script lines" where the ultimate goal is to convince the reader/listener to decide that we should simply stick our heads in the sand and pretend the COVID-19 pandemic does not exist.

You are lucky if you have not been exposed to this propaganda very much yet.

You might notice that the editorial reads as if the word "Covid" refers to "that time when the government told us to wear masks and get vaccines and all that stuff." I'm not sure if people actually hold this view or just pretend to, but it's not uncommon.

It's trying to give off the aura of "Oh, remember when all those silly people told us to wear masks, it was just a silly thing that happened one time, why are we still talking about it, we should just forget it ever happened."

People with attitudes similar to the author are the reason there is still a COVID-19 pandemic, in the developed world at least. I'm surprised you don't have experience with them by now.

Re: On Covid

#97
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The broad logic is more infections = more variants. Which makes sense in a purely statistical way, since variants are happened upon by chance on infection.

It seems the messaging from the experts is different in the US and the UK. The message in the UK broadly is: expect to be infected with COVID multiple times throughout your life, vaccination and prior infection should protect you from serious illness.

The chart shown at time code 7:55 https://youtu.be/FYIeL8XxluQ?t=476 is the best representation I've seen of this.

One of the hard things to talk about is the difference between: exposure, infection, disease, and infectivity. Headlines and news coverage of these has been almost universally terrible. There are rules of thumb thrown around like they are proven truth. The experiments to actually show at what time and how much infectious agent is produced are very difficult and as far as I know, none have been done. There are some studies on household spread, but to really know what's going on you need to do challenge trials - which means exposing people to the disease - which is highly unethical to do in humans - and challenge trials in animal models can be highly deceptive.

But generally speaking, yes, I expect to be exposed to Sars-Cov-2 many times in my life, and will probably be infected and may develop disease and infectivity. But as a vaccinated person, the period of disease and infectivity will be reduced.

Re: On Covid

#98
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems the messaging from the experts is different in the US and the UK. The message in the UK broadly is: expect to be infected with COVID multiple times throughout your life, vaccination and prior infection should protect you from serious illness.

That's probably the more realistic expectation. Especially when the west is doing very, very little to help curb infections elsewhere in the world. Until they become interested in that there will always be a fresh supply of variants arriving.

Heck, the west isn't even doing very much to help curb infections in the west.

Re: On Covid

#99

> First, we have less severe variants now. Please don't assume that future variants will be less and less severe. It's what we all want to hear, but this "covid is over" mentality is what will help produce the next, possibly really nasty, variant.

New variants of viruses can arise at any point in the future, regardless of what we do. Any flu season in any previous year in history could have produced a deadly variant, and yet we went on with our lives. I think this is simply about reassessing our risk calculus with the fact that the current Covid variant is mild enough that it can be gradually folded into the background noise of seasonal viruses that we deal wi…

I remember at least two flu seasons where flu variants named after certain animals caused people to not simply go on with their lives. Do you remember those?

Re: On Covid

#100

> First, we have less severe variants now. Please don't assume that future variants will be less and less severe. It's what we all want to hear, but this "covid is over" mentality is what will help produce the next, possibly really nasty, variant.

Since nothing we've done has prevented the evolution of variants, why do we think we have any control over whether there will be more?

Reducing infections reduces variants
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