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Jan 6 committee subpoenas Meta, Google, Reddit etc. after 'inadequate responses'

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Re: Jan 6 committee subpoenas Meta, Google, Reddit etc. after 'inadequate responses'

#91

Post by kadoban »

benmmurphy wrote: post #61
IgorPartola wrote: post #28

I get some kind of sick satisfaction out of watching a certain small subset of HN lose their mind trying to square the circle when it comes to stuff like this. On one hand “this is government overreach!” (it’s not because the committee here is on a specific task to investigate a specific crime) and “free market!” and on the other hand “big social media companies are evil and decide what’s right and what’s wrong.” Nev…

if congress is investigating a 'crime' then it is overreach because that is not the responsibility of congress. congress has investigatory powers like the subpoena power in order to help it make decisions about passing law. it is not meant to use this power primarily to pursue individuals.

Congress has had broad investigatory powers since the beginning, this is nothing new.

Re: Jan 6 committee subpoenas Meta, Google, Reddit etc. after 'inadequate responses'

#92

Post by throw_nbvc1234 »

shrimpx wrote: post #18
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #9

We have a First Amendment... but if you run a platform that does not even use the First Amendment, you'll get subpoenaed and harassed. In theory, I ran a platform that protected everything the First Amendment did, and protected nothing that the Amendment did not protect, I should be legally in the clear. But I'm not going to attempt such a thing - because it's clear Congress would do the ultimate shakedown.

What do Twitter and Reddit have to do with the first amendment?

If you assume the companies are operating in a vacuum, probably nothing. If the government is trying to influence a private company what rules to use for moderation then the lines are blurred.

As other have said, this is a bit different then that since it's an investigation but I'm sure you can find some examples from the past years of politicians and government officials trying to influence moderation policies for better or worse.

Re: Jan 6 committee subpoenas Meta, Google, Reddit etc. after 'inadequate responses'

#93

Post by satronaut »

kerneloftruth wrote: post #22
altgoogler wrote: post #12

Disclaimer: am googler, my opinions are my own. I have no non-public knowledge on this topic. It's not clear to me what the House committee is asking for. From what I read in their letters it's basically, "We think you have more than you've given us, so give it to us". That's not how this works. If you want to subpoena information, you need to be specific and targeted. If you don't get what you think you want, call p…

I think they're also sending a message: Censor more! (because the mid-terms are coming).

No post body was provided.

Re: Jan 6 committee subpoenas Meta, Google, Reddit etc. after 'inadequate responses'

#94

Post by belltaco »

benmmurphy wrote: post #61
IgorPartola wrote: post #28

I get some kind of sick satisfaction out of watching a certain small subset of HN lose their mind trying to square the circle when it comes to stuff like this. On one hand “this is government overreach!” (it’s not because the committee here is on a specific task to investigate a specific crime) and “free market!” and on the other hand “big social media companies are evil and decide what’s right and what’s wrong.” Nev…

if congress is investigating a 'crime' then it is overreach because that is not the responsibility of congress. congress has investigatory powers like the subpoena power in order to help it make decisions about passing law. it is not meant to use this power primarily to pursue individuals.

That ship to Benghazi sailed a long time ago.

Re: Jan 6 committee subpoenas Meta, Google, Reddit etc. after 'inadequate responses'

#95

Post by oneoff786 »

benmmurphy wrote: post #61
IgorPartola wrote: post #28

I get some kind of sick satisfaction out of watching a certain small subset of HN lose their mind trying to square the circle when it comes to stuff like this. On one hand “this is government overreach!” (it’s not because the committee here is on a specific task to investigate a specific crime) and “free market!” and on the other hand “big social media companies are evil and decide what’s right and what’s wrong.” Nev…

if congress is investigating a 'crime' then it is overreach because that is not the responsibility of congress. congress has investigatory powers like the subpoena power in order to help it make decisions about passing law. it is not meant to use this power primarily to pursue individuals.

Conducting investigations is something that congress does, and has centuries of precedent supported by the Supreme Court, including the investigation of crimes

Re: Jan 6 committee subpoenas Meta, Google, Reddit etc. after 'inadequate responses'

#96

Post by satronaut »

IgorPartola wrote: post #30
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Sounds like you haven’t seen much evidence then. https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/13/politics/oath-keepers-seditio...

No post body was provided.

Re: Jan 6 committee subpoenas Meta, Google, Reddit etc. after 'inadequate responses'

#97

Post by lapsedacademic »

altgoogler wrote: post #12

Disclaimer: am googler, my opinions are my own. I have no non-public knowledge on this topic. It's not clear to me what the House committee is asking for. From what I read in their letters it's basically, "We think you have more than you've given us, so give it to us". That's not how this works. If you want to subpoena information, you need to be specific and targeted. If you don't get what you think you want, call p…

> If you want to subpoena information, you need to be specific and targeted

On one hand, a congressional subpoena for "non-public moderation discussions and policies" is broad. On the other hand, there is certainly some version of that request that is within reasonable scope for a subpoena. In the hypothetical world where passing legislation in the US were still possible and Congress was capable of regulating Big Tech (e.g. changing Section 230 or so on), this is exactly the sort of thing a Congressional Subpoena would make sense for, since there would be a germane policy making interest in obtaining this information.

> I just don't see what warrants this round of grandstanding.

The paradox of Big Tech: everyone hates Big Tech because they think their political adversaries control Big Tech.

The Left views Big Tech as monopolies controlled by techno-libertarian ultra-billionaires. The Right views Big Tech as Democrat companies controlled by radical leftist censors.

(As an aside: in a sense, both views have a kernel of truth. Big Tech employees skew left, especially on social issues, although not nearly as homogeneously as the right seems to think and individual FAANG employees have far less power than people seem to imagine. On the other hand, the leadership of these companies are definitely not natural allies of progressives, but are also not -- AFAICT -- nearly as villainous as the left seems to think.)

But the real thing that both have in common is conspiratorial brain candy with Big Tech as the modern stand-in for Illuminati or whatever.

Re: Jan 6 committee subpoenas Meta, Google, Reddit etc. after 'inadequate responses'

#98

Post by throwawaysea »

DerpyBaby123 wrote: post #27
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #17

Quoted post unavailable.

"Nearly Died" yes, because the leadership guiding the riot wasn't particularly competent. If they had control of more institutions, it would likely have been more successful. When saying "any other show of power other than that they managed to break through a few weakly-secured doors" you downplay the fact they the rioters interrupted a session of Congress and succeeded in their purpose of delaying the certification…

How many people do you think were actually there to delay certification of election results? The overwhelming majority of people who stepped onto the Capitol grounds are charged only with simple trespassing. Even most of the people who entered the actual building were just trespassing and did not take things further. There were nearly 10000 people who marched from the earlier Trump rally to the area outside the Capitol. A few hundred entered the Capitol grounds, and my guess is that most of the rioters were intending to be peaceful protesters and got carried away.

> If they had control of more institutions, it would likely have been more successful.

Isn’t this the pot calling the kettle black? The political left does control most of the institutions, including most mainstream press outlets, virtually all academic institutions, and all notable tech companies. The one thing I can take away from January 6th that is about the security of our elections doesn’t relate to the security of physical buildings. One political side was able to compel all these institutions to take up their political cause, and have engaged in state-motivated censorship of political adversaries. Hiding behind the legality of whether a private organization can censor is not really meaningful. Democracy begins a lot earlier than when we line up to vote. That to me is a much more direct threat to the stability of our country than anything else.

Re: Jan 6 committee subpoenas Meta, Google, Reddit etc. after 'inadequate responses'

#99

Post by oneoff786 »

whimsicalism wrote: post #68
oneoff786 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Remind me what the Secret Service exists for again, Protecting the president. The secret service does not protect senators > and who got the lawmakers out of there before the rioters came. Capitol Hill police I believe. > Maybe Democracy would have been closer to dying I’m pretty sure I explicitly said that wasn’t on the table. My point was that the rioters got very close. That is, one door away, then lured to othe…

Realistically what would have happened is many rioters en masse would have been killed by security forces which would have become a big political issue.

I think if rioters were killed trying to breach the senator room it would be a lot less of a political issue, with them clearly being portrayed as villains even by republicans.

Re: Jan 6 committee subpoenas Meta, Google, Reddit etc. after 'inadequate responses'

#100

Post by whimsicalism »

DerpyBaby123 wrote: post #38
jimbob45 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YouTube shows you more of what you look for. If it stops doing that, people will use a 3rd-party search tool that lawmakers will be unable to censor (e.g. Reddit, Digg, 9gag, 4chan). It's a scapegoat. If you want people to stop looking up content about distrusting the government, the solution is a more transparent government, not to stop them from watching the content.

It doesn't just do that, it pushes you more and more into specific niches. It doesn't have to do that either, but Youtube has designed it to do it, to put users into the famous Youtube Rabbit Hole. This rabbit hole encourages extremism in some people, and that can be harmful to society. Why the defeatist attitude, that huge companies have to encourage extremism or people will stop using their products? That's non-sen…

Youtube recommends videos you are likely to click on. It is unclear to me what else they are supposed to recommend.

It is also unclear to me that the recommendations ought to be moderated by some embedded state entity to make sure the results align with what is in political vogue.

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