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Google hired union-busting consultants to convince employees “unions suck”

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Re: Google hired union-busting consultants to convince employees “unions suck”

#91

Post by brightstep »

flavius29663 wrote: post #52
brightstep wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With regard to the lazy worker, honestly, who cares? You still get paid. The company isn't going under. No doubt like most situations of abuse, this is a minority case because in general people like being productive.

Then Google should just hire 100,000 devs this year, why not? They're not going to go under, who cares that they won't be able to contribute to the success of the company?

Sure, what do I care? I care about people not corporations. There are competitors salivating to scoop up any devs who are out of a job if Google goes under.

Re: Google hired union-busting consultants to convince employees “unions suck”

#92

Post by 0xbadc0de5 »

lordnacho wrote: post #79
0xbadc0de5 wrote: post #17

A related topic would be collective bargaining - which is often (but not always) associated with a unionized workplace. If you're a sub-standard employee, you win big through collective bargaining because pay bands will move toward the mean. If however, you are a high-performer, you will likely be under-compensated in a collective bargaining environment because your excess effort will be used to compensate those who…

Mostly agree, but why should negotiating skills be compensated? Should we all be taught poker?

I only mention that in acknowledgement that it is, fairly or not, a contributing factor in the equation.

Re: Google hired union-busting consultants to convince employees “unions suck”

#93

Post by pydry »

bennysomething wrote: post #73
dccoolgai wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People _can_ be awful. I've seen founders, managers and execs bleed people dry - squeezing the life out of critical contributors whole stringing them along with promised of "getting their piece of the pie" that they had no intention of ever sharing. Telling anecdotes about "that one lazy guy who got paid for doing nothing" is tired. We've done that for the last 40 years. Time to try unions again, please.

You say let's try again, I think before doing that it would be wise to look at why we got rid of them. I'm the UK, I know people who are doctors and teachers, they all have stories of how their unions are hurting the public.

>it would be wise to look at why we got rid of them. I'm the UK

It would be wise to question why the military was brought in to get rid of them - both in the UK or the US.

Re: Google hired union-busting consultants to convince employees “unions suck”

#94

Post by gunapologist99 »

lovich wrote: post #62
gunapologist99 wrote: post #55

At one place I worked, I discovered that an employee had intentionally broken a machine that resulted in more than $8m in losses, but because of union negotiations, no one would do anything about it. At a different company, a union worker actually aimed a forklift at me, apparently because I was in IT. Unions historically served an important role, but they're an anachronism in the U.S. -- especially for coders at Goo…

I’m willing to be convinced here but how does 2 shitty people convince you that unions are an anachronism, especially when we are in the middle of an effective nationwide labor revolt over how shitty workers have been paid and treated for years?

Thanks! these are not the only stories I could tell, but just two picked at random.

Re: Google hired union-busting consultants to convince employees “unions suck”

#95

Post by monocasa »

blululu wrote: post #42
sanxiyn wrote: post #3

Learn from South Korea: all top tech companies are unionized. #1 search engine (Naver), #1 messenger (Kakao), #1 game company (Nexon), etc.

Not sure what the lesson is? South Korea is a very different country. Their laws and constitution were written by New Deal Democrats at a time when there was almost no existing industry and no opposition from the likes of Robert Taft and Henry Ford. The situation is very different in 21st century America. Unions can be a productive part of an industrial system, but just throwing up a union is not really going to solv…

Their constitution has been completely rewritten several times, most recently in 1987.

Re: Google hired union-busting consultants to convince employees “unions suck”

#96

Post by sanxiyn »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #53
brightstep wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With regard to the lazy worker, honestly, who cares? You still get paid. The company isn't going under. No doubt like most situations of abuse, this is a minority case because in general people like being productive.

The issue many have is the union dues. If the union doesn't help me, but still take 5% (or whatever) of my paycheck, I'd be pretty peeved off. It's the same issue many people have with raising taxes: politicians tout all the benefits it'll allow, but then costs go up and no visible product results.

5% does seem excessive. I worked at a unionized tech company, and I paid 0.5% as union due.

Re: Google hired union-busting consultants to convince employees “unions suck”

#98

Post by VictorPath »

0xbadc0de5 wrote: post #12

Having worked for both union and non-union employers - it's a mixed bag. Unions have advantages and disadvantages. They are great for worker representation - but that's a double-edged sword. Ideally, unions protects worker's interests. In practice, they often lead to abuse, stagnation and corruption. I've personally witnessed union employees who contributed nothing for years, get perpetually shifted from team to team…

> union employees who contributed nothing for year

Me and my co-workers create wealth, a portion of which is sent off in dividends, the majority of which is going to heirs who have never worked a day in their life. I am more concerned about that than that the guy working next to me isn't killing himself more to fill that heir's pockets.

Organized labor is made up of the people working and creating wealth. Of course you don't mention the indolence of the idle class expropriators who the people doing the work are organizing to combat.

Re: Google hired union-busting consultants to convince employees “unions suck”

#99

Post by criddell »

0xbadc0de5 wrote: post #12

Having worked for both union and non-union employers - it's a mixed bag. Unions have advantages and disadvantages. They are great for worker representation - but that's a double-edged sword. Ideally, unions protects worker's interests. In practice, they often lead to abuse, stagnation and corruption. I've personally witnessed union employees who contributed nothing for years, get perpetually shifted from team to team…

They often do the things you say, but not always. It's up to the members.

Look at the unions for professional athletes or for Hollywood writers for examples where unions are mostly doing very good work on behalf of their members.

Re: Google hired union-busting consultants to convince employees “unions suck”

#100

Post by chrisseaton »

brightstep wrote: post #89
streblo wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd care if I were an investor in such a company.

unions are about workers, not investors

In tech almost all workers are heavily invested in their companies.
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