Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

DMV ‘revisiting’ its approach to regulating Tesla’s public self-driving test

latimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 106 posts

Re: DMV ‘revisiting’ its approach to regulating Tesla’s public self-driving test

#91

Post by mavhc »

simion314 wrote: post #80
mavhc wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA drives 3.225 trillion miles per year, and kills 38000 people, that's about 1 death per 100 million miles. According to the anti Tesla site above, Tesla cars kill 1 person per 200 million miles. That's not accounting for deaths from pollution though

It is easy to use statistics bad. For example you can compare all kind of drivers vs Tesla drivers , you don't have teens driving Teslas so stats are not the same. You can compare all cars vs Tesla and you still have bad stats since Tesla are new and expensive cars, you can't compare with old cheap cars. You can compare autopilot vs human drivers and is still bad stats because most of autopilot miles are on good cond…

Do all the other car companies provide those stats?

Re: DMV ‘revisiting’ its approach to regulating Tesla’s public self-driving test

#92

Post by marricks »

slg wrote: post #60
marricks wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a new technology which no one else is testing in the real world with actual drivers at such a scale. Onus is on Tesla to provide data for others to verify the claim that it’s safe.

Isn't it a catch 22? How do you provide the data that it is safe without testing it to collect the data?

It would be but Tesla charged ahead and put its vehicles on the road.

Re: DMV ‘revisiting’ its approach to regulating Tesla’s public self-driving test

#93

Post by arcticbull »

martindbp wrote: post #70
arcticbull wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's good and bad ways to develop new technologies. It is our responsibility to champion the good and call out the bad. If not us, the people who actually understand and build the technology - then who? [edit] I'm pro EPA too btw, its nice that rivers don't catch fire.

If EPA regulations stood in the way of saving a million lives a year, yeah it would be a bad way to develop new technologies. We know humans are terrible drivers leading to countless tragedies. Tesla FSD is far from working at the moment, nobody is claiming otherwise. But it requires a human supervisor, and this is enforced by a driver facing camera. That combination likely makes it safer than the average driver alre…

If saving lives were paramount would we not just be advocating for more trains?

I think this is simply a cost-saving measure. They have not developed a sufficiently reliable system, they are marketing it as though it is, and putting it on the road. I strongly suspect that they do not in fact require more data to perfect this system - I suspect they need more sensors. If they do need more data, they're free to obtain it otherwise.

Autopilot has tried to murder me a few times lol.

Re: DMV ‘revisiting’ its approach to regulating Tesla’s public self-driving test

#94

Post by slg »

marricks wrote: post #92
slg wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it a catch 22? How do you provide the data that it is safe without testing it to collect the data?

It would be but Tesla charged ahead and put its vehicles on the road.

Well yes, that is my point. How else would they ever acquire that data if they didn't charge ahead? You are asking them to accomplish an impossible task to release the data without having a way to acquire it.

Re: DMV ‘revisiting’ its approach to regulating Tesla’s public self-driving test

#95

Post by dasbo »

mavhc wrote: post #91
simion314 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is easy to use statistics bad. For example you can compare all kind of drivers vs Tesla drivers , you don't have teens driving Teslas so stats are not the same. You can compare all cars vs Tesla and you still have bad stats since Tesla are new and expensive cars, you can't compare with old cheap cars. You can compare autopilot vs human drivers and is still bad stats because most of autopilot miles are on good cond…

Do all the other car companies provide those stats?

They do not sell a self-drivibg feature

Re: DMV ‘revisiting’ its approach to regulating Tesla’s public self-driving test

#96

Post by erulabs »

martindbp wrote: post #56
erulabs wrote: post #32

This topic aside, I guess I just feel like if the Hacker community is saying “don’t build things! It’s dangerous! What if someone gets hurt! Go DMV! Put a stop to that!”, then maybe I don’t want to be a Hacker anymore.

Wholeheartedly agree. I don't give much weight to the negativity on HN anymore. VR bad, crypto bad, Tesla bad, autonomous vehicles bad, billionaires in space bad. To me it's pretty clear that Tesla's audatiousness in pushing FSD could move up the advent of L4 by years, possibly saving hundreds of thousands of lives, for very little downside. In fact, I believe human+FSD is already safer on average, just due to the fa…

It’s genuinely some new form of conservatism. Imagine if the phone phreakers had stopped and given up “because someone might get hurt”. Imagine a hacker forum in the 80s cheering on the FCC. To be clear I don’t care about Tesla here - just the attitude of my peers.

I want my culture back.

Re: DMV ‘revisiting’ its approach to regulating Tesla’s public self-driving test

#97

Post by simion314 »

mavhc wrote: post #91
simion314 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is easy to use statistics bad. For example you can compare all kind of drivers vs Tesla drivers , you don't have teens driving Teslas so stats are not the same. You can compare all cars vs Tesla and you still have bad stats since Tesla are new and expensive cars, you can't compare with old cheap cars. You can compare autopilot vs human drivers and is still bad stats because most of autopilot miles are on good cond…

Do all the other car companies provide those stats?

No because:

1 they are not alpha/beta testing on public roads

2 not all cars track you, my brother Ford won't call to the homebase with crash info when he hit a dog.

Re: DMV ‘revisiting’ its approach to regulating Tesla’s public self-driving test

#98

Post by jjav »

martindbp wrote: post #70
arcticbull wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's good and bad ways to develop new technologies. It is our responsibility to champion the good and call out the bad. If not us, the people who actually understand and build the technology - then who? [edit] I'm pro EPA too btw, its nice that rivers don't catch fire.

If EPA regulations stood in the way of saving a million lives a year, yeah it would be a bad way to develop new technologies. We know humans are terrible drivers leading to countless tragedies. Tesla FSD is far from working at the moment, nobody is claiming otherwise. But it requires a human supervisor, and this is enforced by a driver facing camera. That combination likely makes it safer than the average driver alre…

> What I'm seeing is that Tesla's appraoch, fleet learning

I don't want to see that experimental learning happening on public roads which are shared by people who are not willing participants in the experiment.

Every time a Tesla crashes into a barrier killing the driver that is sad, but at least they chose that fate so ok.

When Teslas cause damage to other cars or humans who didn't want to be part of the alpha program, that's criminal.

Re: DMV ‘revisiting’ its approach to regulating Tesla’s public self-driving test

#99

Post by spikels »

mwill wrote: post #52
Rygian wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you say "having a tendency to," how often exactly does that happen? Have you been able to watch Twitter videos of all driving situations FSD is exposed to, or was your research biased to "videos that get a lot of views," itself a subset of "FSD driving that was caught on camera"?

I think it's fair to view Telsa's FSD as a single (very prolific) driver. If there were multiple viral videos of a single person veering into oncoming traffic, I wouldn't care how many hours of video there was of them NOT veering into oncoming traffic there was tbh, I would still like to see some intervention.

Analogies often mislead. A single driver even a "very prolific" one is not driving hundreds of millions of miles a year.

Thought experiment: view all cars as a single imperfect product that kills 1.3 million people and injures tens of millions every year - vast majority due to poor driving. What's you solution? And make it fast - another 1.3 million will die this year.

Re: DMV ‘revisiting’ its approach to regulating Tesla’s public self-driving test

#100

Post by icapulet2 »

anonporridge wrote: post #2

Does anyone have good data on comparing deaths per mile driven between various auto brands? This data, https://www.tesladeaths.com/ , doesn't tell us much if accurate, other than Tesla crashes don't seem to be any kind of real problem in an absolute sense.

There's data on the other parts of the website. Use the links.
Post reply on HN