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How to quit like a boss

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Re: How to quit like a boss

#91

Post by paulcole »

blagie wrote: post #56
ragnot wrote: post #6

Honestly, it's really simple: two weeks and that's it. Been there 2 years and haven't gotten a raise/promotion? 2 weeks. Been there 10 years and are bored/didn't get what you want? 2 weeks. Don't fall over yourself helping the company. Chances are they are going to forget you in 3 months anyway.

Bad advice. I hate generalities. Last time I left a firm, there was 12 months notice (and the decision was mutual). That was the right choice for both sides. The organization I'm working at right now, it's not uncommon to give years of notice, mostly heading for retirement. Most tech companies are definitely two weeks, but that's far from the universe.

Something being “not uncommon” at your organization doesn’t make it good advice for anyone else.

Unless there’s a contract or an extreme circumstance that demands otherwise, 2 weeks is a courtesy and an employer should be ready for 0 days notice.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#93

Post by jamesbrady »

BeetleB wrote: post #77
jamesbrady wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It should read: "How Your Boss Would Like You to Quit" Touché, yes there's some truth to this. Many of the points in the post were reflections on people leaving my team as I have an order of magnitude more examples of that than me leaving a team. If you're implying there's some kind of zero-sum thing going on here though, I disagree: it can be good for both you and your boss. > I wonder what their world view is… I…

> Ah, no – this is in the "Don’t sabotage, it’s a dick move" section: it's sabotage which is unethical. I guess the source of the confusion is that you didn't specify what the sabotage actually is. I mean, deleting all your code before leaving is sabotage. Leaving without notice isn't. What did you have in mind when you wrote that? > I don't quite follow this paragraph, could you rephrase? I was highlighting a bunch…

> I guess the source of the confusion is that you didn't specify what the sabotage actually is

Ah ha, I see – yes I had in mind actively doing stuff to undermine the team after the person has left (on the benign end, deliberately doing a crappy job of documentation; on the malignant end, stuff like data destruction). I will make this clearer in the post, thanks!

> - The notion that you should have loyalty to the team beyond your last paycheck.

It made me sad to read this. You don't have to be loyal to your team, of course, but your framing makes me think that you've never been in a position where you've wanted to be loyal to your team, long-term.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#94

Post by orangesite »

Having spent more time working in toxic environments than non-toxic ones I really appreciate this perspective on managing the difficult decision to exit.

As many commenters have pointed out: When there are no professional relationships you want to preserve for the years (decades!) to come the matter is easily handled with a two week notice and a swift departure before the morning light.

However, when you have been fortunate enough to have worked with great colleagues it is a lot harder to exit the building without damaging your relationship with them.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#95

Post by jamesbrady »

300bps wrote: post #66
CapitalistCartr wrote: post #3

This is excellent advice for those working in a rational environment. For those working in an ego-driven environment, not so much. Plan your exit strategy as you would from an abusive spouse. Don't assume good faith on anyone else's part.

I don’t think it’s good advice even for someone working in a rational environment. The part about giving ten months notice is terrible. He even says that it was bad for both sides! He was mentally checked out for months and not coming up with long term solutions because he knew he was out of there. Not my supposition - he literally says that. My past three jobs have all lasted at least a decade. I just don’t agree wi…

I think we might have crossed wires here…

The section you're referring to is titled "Avoid giving too much notice " and basically gives five reasons for why 10 months was a harmfully-long notice period.

The advice is to give much less notice than that.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#96

Post by vanusa »

chadcmulligan wrote: post #4
CapitalistCartr wrote: post #3

This is excellent advice for those working in a rational environment. For those working in an ego-driven environment, not so much. Plan your exit strategy as you would from an abusive spouse. Don't assume good faith on anyone else's part.

Indeed, I was thinking where are these rational managers where you can discuss things openly. It seems the world of management is full of petty narcissistic control freaks.

It seems the world of management is full of petty narcissistic control freaks.

It can sure seem that way -- and no doubt is that way, in certain situations.

More often I find they're simply ... scared. Of how they'll be evaluated, or what will happen if they make a mistake (or heavens, let someone below them make a mistake). Or of simply being "found out" (that they're not nearly as experienced or as sage in their advice as others have made them out to be).

Re: How to quit like a boss

#98

Post by BeetleB »

jamesbrady wrote: post #93
BeetleB wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ah, no – this is in the "Don’t sabotage, it’s a dick move" section: it's sabotage which is unethical. I guess the source of the confusion is that you didn't specify what the sabotage actually is. I mean, deleting all your code before leaving is sabotage. Leaving without notice isn't. What did you have in mind when you wrote that? > I don't quite follow this paragraph, could you rephrase? I was highlighting a bunch…

> I guess the source of the confusion is that you didn't specify what the sabotage actually is Ah ha, I see – yes I had in mind actively doing stuff to undermine the team after the person has left (on the benign end, deliberately doing a crappy job of documentation; on the malignant end, stuff like data destruction). I will make this clearer in the post, thanks! > - The notion that you should have loyalty to the team…

> You don't have to be loyal to your team, of course, but your framing makes me think that you've never been in a position where you've wanted to be loyal to your team, long-term.

I'm sure such places exist, but most jobs are not like that, sadly.

In any case, there's a difference between want and should. I'm not criticizing people who want to be loyal to the team. Just those that think there is an obligation to.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#99

Post by [deleted] »

oramit wrote: post #65

This post is filled with bad and naive advice. I have thankfully worked in mostly rational companies and been able to be honest with managers about what is or isn't working. At my last job though I spent more than a year saying repeatedly that I wasn't happy with my project work and that I wanted more pay. Annual review rolls around and they didn't fix it. I had a new job offer in a month and when I put in my notice…

[deleted]

Re: How to quit like a boss

#100

Post by cwkoss »

BeetleB wrote: post #77
jamesbrady wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It should read: "How Your Boss Would Like You to Quit" Touché, yes there's some truth to this. Many of the points in the post were reflections on people leaving my team as I have an order of magnitude more examples of that than me leaving a team. If you're implying there's some kind of zero-sum thing going on here though, I disagree: it can be good for both you and your boss. > I wonder what their world view is… I…

> Ah, no – this is in the "Don’t sabotage, it’s a dick move" section: it's sabotage which is unethical. I guess the source of the confusion is that you didn't specify what the sabotage actually is. I mean, deleting all your code before leaving is sabotage. Leaving without notice isn't. What did you have in mind when you wrote that? > I don't quite follow this paragraph, could you rephrase? I was highlighting a bunch…

Yeah.

Breaking things out of malice is bad sabotage.

Speaking the painful truths to your coworkers and higher ups can be very productive 'sabotage': you don't have to worry about job security anymore so you can say things that need to be said but others are afraid to.

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