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Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

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Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#91
post #80

You hit the nail on the head -- repeatedly. Shit. I just bought my gf a Roku as a stocking stuffer. We were setting it up and it made her put in her email and phone number to verify. I was appalled; I was like don't put in your email! I'll return it! But she wanted be able to watch YouTube on her TV since Apple removed it without warning from her AppleTV device . My own Roku from a couple years ago works great with n…

Roku is now publicly traded so its beholden to getting quarterly value for shareholder. Investors have deemed all of this data collecting valuable. Capitalism killing innovation by making it another homogeneous device that doesn't respect you doesn't surprise me.

Me neither in the long run, but it definitely surprised me on Christmas Day how much data they wanted to collect. One bit at a time I've been offended and shocked by it since I came back to this country in 2015 but I gotta say, watching how totally docile and copacetic my girlfriend was about this boot-up experience was more interesting than any of what they were trying to collect. It was totally weird to her that I was telling her not to put in any of this info and that I would return it for her. She was done entering her data before I could mount a full argument why she shouldn't. I know, I'm just a hideous boyfriend. That's not the point though. I was really offended and I tried several ways to get around the boot process without verifying by email. This only succeeded in delaying our HBO show by 20 minutes. She was just like, let me do this. Ok no problem, she said, I verified it.

Now how are gonna expect companies to act civilized when almost everyone's already conditioned to hand over their life every time they're asked?

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#92
post #7

Not a main factor but a factor is 'always the latest tech' issue. Most banks and airlines I use rewrote their perfectly fine and fast sites and apps to reactjs and now they seriously suck. This is not the fault of react but more of this idea of tech people that everything has to be new which means we don't have 10+ year experience in it and the results just take more work to get right (despite what everyone says here…

> microservices etc are not helping either. When done well they are supposed to help, but in reality I only see systems that can work when all microservices are up and responsive; if one is down, the entire thing is dead. Why didn't you make a monolith? Now you have brittle all over the place and devops with 247 stress.

You could make a monolith where the UI keeps working even if some of the monolith's endpoints don't work, and you can make a microservices architecture where the UI still doesn't cope if a microservice is down.

I think the pros of microservices are: - deploy smaller - you only update the parts of the system you need to when you modify something. - different technologies - you can use Ruby here and Go there if you like; very un-locked-in and you can maximise the value of any libraries you have. E.g. if you have a number crunching bit of your app you could make a Python microservice with numpy etc installed. - independent data stores - pro and con, of course, but it's nice if you can decouple bits of your system and again use mongo here, postgres there if you need to - as an microservices-based application grows in scope, the number of engineers working on different bits of it can scale, as they can deliver independently. It's harder to scale engineers working on the same codebase

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#93
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, let's say I won't tolerate it. What do I do? crickets And no, average users have never avoided scams, email spam is older than web.

Don't like something? Take your money elsewhere, and make sure to tell why on social media, even if you don't have large following. Besides making bad practices unnoticeably less profitable this normalises caring about this. In the future we will see more business will see practices that you like as advantageous.

> Don't like something? Take your money elsewhere,

If you have a phone with open-source firmware for the modem, I will buy it immediately. Who is taking my money?

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#94
post #55
post #22

Users tolerating such bullshit is the reason why it exists and keeps on existing. Nobody is forced to continue using dark-pattern software, nobody was forced to use Apple and tie their credit-card to their "apple cloud account", yet normal users dont see a problem with it at all and just continue even paying for software which is hostile to them and their interests. Your question is like, "Why does DRM exist it is ac…

OK, let's say I won't tolerate it. What do I do? crickets And no, average users have never avoided scams, email spam is older than web.

Then may the people follow your lead. Or not. Either way the market will follow the money.

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#95
> Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

Because in the process of 'enhancing the experience' everybody forgot to ask the user.

Classical example - A/B testing.

In the ideal world it means what if some change is introduced then it would be tested on a small subset of users.

In our world A/B testing means what there would be two changes and one with less complaints would be chosen.

"But, but I did that the right way!" somebody would say? Well, if you did A/B testing right, that doesn't means you got the right conclusions from it: if you had only 2% (or even 0%) of complaints on some change that doesn't means you are needed to do that change.

It is sometimes so blunt and evident what you are at loss for words. Eg: the logon page of my bank. After a major redesign a couple of years ago (from a ~2008 style) it was a subject for at least 5 "improvements" since that, all accompanied with "for your experience we did blaablabla...". One time they even explicitly stated "we played with fonts". Imagine the audacity.

Do you know what functionally changed in all those minor "improvements"? Absolutely nothing.

Sometimes there was new fonts, sometimes the fonts got back, one time there showed up this stupid "You have 2 new messages!" notification (ON A LOGON SCREEN OF A BANK WEBSITE FFS!) and all other times I don't even know what (if anything) was changed, because my logon experience wasn't changed a bit. Btw, the colorful, giant photo of some mountains serving as the page wallpaper doesn't show up in the Firefox with a strict security settings, means it's get loaded from some unsecure/unapproved (CORS?) location (and what these idiots doesn't test their site in FF).

But both the PR dept and Web design team DOES THE THING for a couple years, both are running successful A/B tests, both are having good KPIs (selected by themselves I suppose) and both... forgot to ask the user if their changes are actually needed.

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#96

I think it's mainly your last reason. After the founders have cashed out, there's nobody left to care about user experience, because by then, most things are run by MBAs as dictated by shareholders. And shareholders don't care who suffers. They care purely about profits. The solution is to introduce laws to reign in "profits at the expense of others". When chemical companies were polluting the ground (superfund sites…

> The solution is to introduce laws to reign in "profits at the expense of others".

Now you have two problems.

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

With respect to the private testing entities with buddies in parliament that make it mandatory for us to pay businesses like Randox, I entirely agree.

It is good to see on the London underground that the adverts for these COVID-test scammers are routinely daubed as such.

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#98
If you ask me it's due to a confluence of:

- People like and expect stuff on the internet to be free;

- The companies who produce this stuff have shareholders who want to see their squiggly lines go up.

Honourable mention: Because cybersecurity is hard and involves saving users from themselves.

That's my oversimplified take, anyways.

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

With respect to the private testing entities with buddies in parliament that make it mandatory for us to pay businesses like Randox, I entirely agree.

I don't see the scam nor a conspiracy.

First of all, private COVID test producing corporations are prolonging the pandemic by suggesting to gov't that testing be done to a higher degree than necessary? Why would governments fall for that? Oh, you mean they're all corrupt. Well, then you should call all government procurements corrupt, not just this one.

Re: Ask HN: Why is today's Internet experience so user hostile?

#100
post #22

Users tolerating such bullshit is the reason why it exists and keeps on existing. Nobody is forced to continue using dark-pattern software, nobody was forced to use Apple and tie their credit-card to their "apple cloud account", yet normal users dont see a problem with it at all and just continue even paying for software which is hostile to them and their interests. Your question is like, "Why does DRM exist it is ac…

> and just continue even paying for software which is hostile to them

I went Apple precisely because it was not hostile at all compared to Windows and Google’s forest of adware. The minute you give me a non-user hostile OS (phone or desktop), I’ll PAY $300/year for it.

But even Ubuntu returned Amazon results when I searched the local application (Don’t get me started on technicalities of “But maybe you want your start menu to display your friend’s most recent purchases? How can Ubuntu know? But they’ve recognized their mistake after going to production and rolled back parts of it!”)

It’s time to stop blaming the user and start blaming the EU for their badly-written cookie banner laws.

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