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The secret Uganda deal that has brought NSO to the brink of collapse

arstechnica.com

91–100 of 142 posts

Re: The secret Uganda deal that has brought NSO to the brink of collapse

#91

I commented previously that the Uganda case was the first truly legitimate application of NSO's tech and the first one that wasn't actually a scandal, as it was by a state without a mature domestic intelligence capability going to market to buy tools of one, to spy on actual spies in its borders. It seems this particular NSO case is being used as bargaining leverage to discredit Israel's position in the Iran nuclear…

I think the argument for legitimate application in Uganda is partly negated by allegations that political opposition was also being targeted [1].

[1] https://twitter.com/norbertmao/status/1463364241688305664

Re: The secret Uganda deal that has brought NSO to the brink of collapse

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as it was by a state without a mature domestic intelligence capability going to market to buy tools of one, to spy on actual spies in its borders How do you intend to support your claim that the 11 US diplomats and employees from the US embassy are spies (and thus are supposedly legitimate targets in your view)? Nowhere does it say US spies were the targets. And no other story on this subject has presented evidence…

US intelligence organizations openly state that a common way for them to operate in a country is to give their agents cover "jobs" at the state department. When state department employees or "employees" work at an embassy they are diplomats. Apparently this is common in the intelligence world. Whether these particular people were spies, it seems like proper counter-intelligence to track all diplomats pretty closely b…

> it seems like proper counter-intelligence to track all diplomats pretty closely because at least some of them are going to be intelligence operatives.

Curious, do you happen to know what such spies do?

I'm wondering if it's just a reporting the news, talking to people and collecting information that can be legally obtained.

Re: The secret Uganda deal that has brought NSO to the brink of collapse

#93
post #3

This is an interesting industry. > “We always knew this thing had an expiration date,” he told the friend, complaining that some clients had asked to shift their contracts to lesser-known rivals, according to a person familiar with the conversation. I guess if you have this perspective, you want to maximize revenues and IPO before your product gets misused and invites US sanctions. I wonder what the reaction would be…

Would depend on the US government of the day. Hacking Team and Finfisher weren't US based, they attracted lots of shit from their governments and the EU where they were based. The reaction so far doesn't seem to be negative just because they are Israeli.

Re: The secret Uganda deal that has brought NSO to the brink of collapse

#94
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think NSO are scapegoats, because how hard is it for a country to setup up a honeypot device to analyse NSO'a attack vectors and then copy it for their own use whilst being able to blame it on NSO? I say this because I've had stuff done to my phones in the past, one strange incident with a "hacked" phone was selecting an AirBnB, which I believe directed me to a few of their "safe" houses. Other examples, include ba…

It is astounding to me that a state as paranoid as Israel has leaned so hard into the far-right that they would actively sell some of that highly sensitive tech to other states that not that long ago had a death wish for Israel as a main position of said state. A state born of hard-edged refugees escaping a world that had recently written them off to die, carried through several existential wars, and now they are EMP…

You dont have a clue do you! Have you thought your prejudices are being played here, the hatred of Jews goes back centuries its engrained in cultures around the world. NSO were too bloody clever for their own good because they never thought about how their hack-as-a-service could be _spun_ against them.

Have you not thought how US companies like MS, Apple, Google do stuff for the US govt, just like when it comes to financial sanctions on Russians, its the US asking the UK to do it. Look at the Ukraine and the NordStream2 pipeline between Germany and Russia, US leaned on the EU to make things difficult for Russia.

Look at the criticisms of China's HueWei spying using 5G networks, the fact HueWei hold more global 5G patents seems to be irrelevant to the US except its not because its a classic case of leap frogging in technology whilst older tech patents are milked.

Its what you would expect from the leading nation on this planet ie the US to engage in behaviour wise but all this US repression makes those countries double down and come back with something better.

NSO is just the latest fallout, but its nuanced and not everyone picks this up when reading the global news.

The US is end of empires time, its just natural just like Afghanistan is the only country on the planet to have never have been colonised by an outside force, namely Russia empire, British empire and US empire and how many people knew that?

Re: The secret Uganda deal that has brought NSO to the brink of collapse

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not conspiracy, if you consume a few grams of lecithin before bed, your dreams will be based on what you saw just before bed. So if you can use a phone to make sounds or says things to someone in their sleep at pertinent moments, you could start having a conversation with them in their sleep or just trigger them to see what they say! You should try it, its fascinating!

I’ve recorded my sleep many a time. What I say is entirely random and garbage. To suggest someone hacked your phone to listen to your dreams requires extraordinary proof, and would also be far less effective than listening to your day while you’re actually awake. And even then, you need quite a high bar of proof. This is only been documented to occur for high value targets, so unless you’re one of them, I’d be far le…

You havent had a conversation with someone sleep walking then or just dreaming out loud then? Thats a little different to just recording yourself snoring. Well my proof keeps being nicked or destroyed so the state could make anything up and it does make stuff up.

Re: The secret Uganda deal that has brought NSO to the brink of collapse

#96
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US intelligence organizations openly state that a common way for them to operate in a country is to give their agents cover "jobs" at the state department. When state department employees or "employees" work at an embassy they are diplomats. Apparently this is common in the intelligence world. Whether these particular people were spies, it seems like proper counter-intelligence to track all diplomats pretty closely b…

> it seems like proper counter-intelligence to track all diplomats pretty closely because at least some of them are going to be intelligence operatives. Curious, do you happen to know what such spies do? I'm wondering if it's just a reporting the news, talking to people and collecting information that can be legally obtained.

they are often actual cia agents, which means collecting humint and building sources and networks. eg https://cryptocomb.org

Re: The secret Uganda deal that has brought NSO to the brink of collapse

#97

Were the US officials that Uganda was spying on diplomats, or "diplomats"?

LOL, all diplomats are "diplomats" when push comes to shove.

Yes, but you are correct in another way.

If the US diplomats Uganda used the NSO technology to spy on are intelligence agents, they still possess diplomatic immunity. They are in Uganda with cover (as opposed to non-cover; that is, they are in country without being a public US goernment employee).

Re: The secret Uganda deal that has brought NSO to the brink of collapse

#98
“We always knew this thing had an expiration date,” (Hulio) told the friend"

This was clearly the plan all along. Such companies live and die by their low profiles. Was probably not the founders' first such company nor will it be their last.

Next step will be to close up, take the contacts, clients, capital, the lessons learned and the cream of the staff to whatever mercenary, unethical piece of crap they make next.

This is why killing the industry as a whole is so important. It'll mean going after the owners, suppliers and employees/contractors with naming/shaming, coordinated sanctions, criminal charges, designated persons lists etc. until their reputations are trash. No bank would fund it, no parters would supply it and no one with any talent would ever contemplate such a catastrophic career move in future.

Re: The secret Uganda deal that has brought NSO to the brink of collapse

#100
post #12
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit of both. I assume they can spy on the US through 5-eyes, 9-eyes, 27eyes, etc. But to allow Uganda to do it was a bridge too far. If NSO had been in almost any other country there wouldn't be a building left standing. The US regards cyberattacks as an act of war.

If the US really regarded cyberattacks as an act of war, it would be actively shooting missiles and bullets at China right now . The US regards cyberattacks as acts of war when convenient, nothing more.

"Act of war" is a legal and diplomatic nicety that, like essentially all international law, you talk about when it happens to align with your realpolitik. It doesn't mean you immediately launch the nukes whenever someone arrests one of your diplomats.
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