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Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

economist.com

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Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#91

Post by ahiknsr »

rendall wrote: post #58
yardie wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, it shouldn't have been in there. But that is only tangential to the reason why Trump pulled the US out of it. He despised China so much that he made sure to strengthen his personal businesses with them while simultaneously weaken the US trade partnership with their rivals.

> He despised China so much that he made sure to strengthen his personal businesses with them while simultaneously weaken the US trade partnership with their rivals. Would you mind expanding on this? I could only find articles describing a bank account opened in China, that indicate only a little less than $500k business per year. What do you know?

Ivanka Trump won China trademarks days before her father's reversal on ZTE

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/28/ivanka-trump...

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#92

Post by jeswin »

WitCanStain wrote: post #47
ekianjo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China's economy would crumble a little if it could not sell anything outside anymore. Imagine a few billions of people losing their current level of life in China... a good recipe for regime change.

All that would happen is that the Chinese government would become even more authoritarian and a whole lot of people would be worse off. These fantasies always seem to ignore the human cost.

> All that would happen is that the Chinese government would become even more authoritarian and a whole lot of people would be worse off. These fantasies always seem to ignore the human cost.

Your suggestion is that the rest of the world should play nice with China, and accept an invasion of a free nation (Taiwan) and its people because not doing so would hurt Chinese nationals within China?

Chinese people suffering due to the CCP is bad, certainly. But what's worse is another country (having nothing to do with the CCP) suffering for it.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#93

Post by RugnirViking »

fifilura wrote: post #56
lmilcin wrote: post #4

There is a simple solution. If most of western world allowed Taiwan embassies China would have to relent. They can't afford having entire western world stand against them. Unfortunately, that would require western nations to agree on something.

In diplomacy "give them hell" is usually not the right answer. Closing all Chinese embassies will just leave a black hole with regards to intelligence. Politics is what it is, and the diplomats role is most often not to combat, but to ease communication. For the same reason the UN may often seem toothless and not able to execute. But it is just a reflection of world politics. It is hard sometimes. The precursor to UN…

What is the right answer then? Current approaches certainly don't seem to be helping, both on the China front but also at the UN

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#94

Post by notpachet »

tenpies wrote: post #85
subroutine wrote: post #44

China would be much better off if they just gave up on the whole Taiwan charade. I understand how badly they want to put Taiwan under thumb like they did HK, but Taiwan is really the only issue I foresee with potential to derail China's progress.

[flagged]

Omicron is real. It's having very tangible impacts on the ability of countries to provide necessary healthcare services to their citizens. People who normally should be first in line to receive care (cancer patients and the like) are having their critical services interrupted or deferred.

Just because you personally don't see the impact doesn't mean it isn't there.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#95

Post by vasac »

mantas wrote: post #60
varjag wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then refused Hitler offer to join attacking Poland. Which is more than what the ostensibly anti-fascist USSR did.

USSR being lord savior from the Nazis is the best marketing campaign ever. And that sells like hot bagels :( Joint parades in Poland, training German armies in secrecy, Gulag tours to learn about concentration camps, selling strategic resources right up to the day when Nazis do u-turn… meh.

Considering that Easter Front was responsible for 80% of German deaths in WWII looks like marketing is what you're selling.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#96

Post by mark_l_watson »

gedy wrote: post #67
subroutine wrote: post #44

China would be much better off if they just gave up on the whole Taiwan charade. I understand how badly they want to put Taiwan under thumb like they did HK, but Taiwan is really the only issue I foresee with potential to derail China's progress.

Yeah I don't see the point or value at this stage. They control their media tightly, and if they just stopped talking about Taiwan I doubt many people in the mainland would care. They've proven they don't need Taiwan and vice versa.

+1 thanks for that, now that I think about this issue, that is the way I feel also.

A few of my friends think I am overboard when I talk positively about China, but really I am just reacting to how wonderful the people there were when my wife and I travelled in China, and I also really respect their AI tech, their tech in general, and how so many people have moved out of poverty.

It is just their current government that I don’t like.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#97

Post by sodality2 »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #86
Enginerrrd wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, it would require them to put principles over the profit of a few constituents. China's geopolitical strategy is brilliant. They see that their adversaries in democratic western countries are beholden to the quarterly profits of a handful of corporations. China, unlike any of the Western nations, WILL take a stand on their principles over profit (At least they seem to, but more on that in a second.) So, they've r…

> China, unlike any of the Western nations, WILL take a stand on their principles over profit Surely that's a joke, right? China, which still has the audacity to call itself a "Communist" nation, which is basically much closer to a Fascist system, with their authoritarian and state-directed control of capitalism? China has one primary governing principle, which is to keep the CCP in power. Their primary way of doing…

A state-directed control of capitalism, of which the façade will be dropped immediately if their ironclad control of the political will is threatened for a second. They have punished huge companies for placing profit over human life, because it threatens "communist values". In my opinion that is placing principles over profit. Despite these principles being what they are. That is not a value judgment of China, simply a statement that they are not willing to throw away a percentage point of authoritarian control for a few more bucks.

> China has one primary governing principle, which is to keep the CCP in power.

Yes, which they place above profit motive. It seems like you agree with above

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#98

Post by Galanwe »

gedy wrote: post #67
subroutine wrote: post #44

China would be much better off if they just gave up on the whole Taiwan charade. I understand how badly they want to put Taiwan under thumb like they did HK, but Taiwan is really the only issue I foresee with potential to derail China's progress.

Yeah I don't see the point or value at this stage. They control their media tightly, and if they just stopped talking about Taiwan I doubt many people in the mainland would care. They've proven they don't need Taiwan and vice versa.

> if they just stopped talking about Taiwan I doubt many people in the mainland would care

Not at all.

For a mainlander, Taiwan _is_ a region of China, think of it as Hawai for the US.

People in the west see Taiwan as a separate country that China tries to forcibly absorb.

People in mainland see Taiwan as a region of China that tries to be independent.

Also, there is a lot of eyes on the Taiwan case from mainlanders because other regions of China are seen as potential underdogs for independence, due to cultural heritage (and wealth), such as Shangai.

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#99

Post by FooBarWidget »

subroutine wrote: post #44

China would be much better off if they just gave up on the whole Taiwan charade. I understand how badly they want to put Taiwan under thumb like they did HK, but Taiwan is really the only issue I foresee with potential to derail China's progress.

It isn't that easy. It's not just China's government that believes Taiwan is part of China — China's people also believe that. There is a saying that if China is democratic, they would have invaded Taiwan yesterday. Or another saying: if the president lets go of Taiwan, the CCP would be overthrown tomorrow.

Another factor that complicates things is the fact that Taiwan is a strategic location for the US's military containment of China. The whole "first island chain" depends on it. The US knows it, China's life depends on it.

There's a reason why this issue has persisted since 1949 and why it's China's "reddest of the red lines".

Re: Lithuania evacuates its embassy in China

#100

Post by phantomathkg »

albeva wrote: post #54

I wish whole of EU would declare in unison support for Taiwan. Wonder if China would kick out every single EU nation embassy then?

I highly doubt they would. Most of the governments worldwide are realists, most of the time they are doing lip services, not many have the gut to do what Lithuanian do.
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