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To reduce student suicides by hanging to fans, institute in India removes fans

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Re: To reduce student suicides by hanging to fans, institute in India removes fans

#91

Post by bayesian_horse »

guerrilla wrote: post #80
bayesian_horse wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suicide isn't logical or rational. It's almost always the result of a temporary state of mind, therefor it matters how accessible the means of ending one's life is. Easy and instant access to firearms for example leads to way more successful (and even just attempted) suicides because it takes less time to take out a gun and shoot than virtually anything else.

> Suicide isn't logical or rational. This is bullshit. It may or may not be depending on individual conditions. If someone knows that they will suffer significatly for the rest of their lives, then it's entirely logical ans rational for them to end their life. It would be irrational to continue living if the cons were guaranteed (or even had a high likelyhood) to outweigh the pros.

You ignored the "almost always" part.

And for me "suffering" is not that logical or rational at all, for that matter. The expectation of such suffering can be reasonable. The willingness to end this suffering can be reasonable. This, however, is a small minority of suicides, suicide attempts and even more so, suicidal ideation.

Re: To reduce student suicides by hanging to fans, institute in India removes fans

#92

Post by medstrom »

perth wrote: post #68
ashtonkem wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming teenagers and low 20 something’s are the similar the world over, they should have restricted access to terraces and rooftops for a variety of reasons unrelated to suicide. Alcohol and heights tend not to be very close friends, and my college restricted access to the latter as much as they could (the former was a lost cause).

Honestly my university giving us rooftop access for working on and setting up radio equipment was one of the most educational and enriching things I did there. Restricting access to rooftops for students seems like a terrible idea for education, where a lot of science literally happens on rooftops, whether with antennas or telescopes. (some students used the rooftop access to monitor fukushima reactor radiation in th…

You could get a ladder if you need a rooftop for a science project, right?

Re: To reduce student suicides by hanging to fans, institute in India removes fans

#93

Post by AdrianB1 »

jeroenhd wrote: post #7

Thi will never cure the underlying cause of suicides, of course, but adding even slight obstacles has proven to have an effect on suicide rates. Many suicides aren't thoughtfully planned out, but are just a combination of motive and easy opportunity. Even adding something as seemingly silly as a moderately difficult to climb fence to a bridge can reduce suicide rates. This is a fine measure, assuming that it's follow…

This looks as bikeshedding. If you want to eliminate suicides, finding and fixing the motivation to commit the act is the way to go. Having a fan on a ceiling is not an opportunity, just one of the many available means to an end and not a compelling one, so it is really a way to pretending to care while not doing the right thing.

Re: To reduce student suicides by hanging to fans, institute in India removes fans

#94

Post by Borrible »

DanBC wrote: post #77
Borrible wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but has the number decreased because of some fancy fences at the Last Exit Caltrain or because of a whole program of measures? https://evolvetreatment.com/blog/palo-alto-teen-mental-healt...

Probably the fencing. We have enough pseudo-experiments now that we can say the fencing makes a difference. There's a carpark in the UK that had trouble adding fencing, so they closed the top level.

> Probably the fencing.

That may well be.

I do not deny that it is a solution for spontaneous suicides in a younger (male?) demographics. Do suicide methods of women or middle aged/elderly people differ? What types of suicides do access restricting measures prevent? Do people change methods? And so on.

Suicide is a graven field for social scientists.

Re: To reduce student suicides by hanging to fans, institute in India removes fans

#95

Post by AdrianB1 »

cafard wrote: post #75
mcv wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember a story about an army that had a lot of suicides when soldiers would go home and take their gun with them. Not allowing them to take their gun home apparently really cut down on the suicides. Having a bit more time to think about it can save lives. But of course they should still address the underlying reasons that make people consider suicide.

It used to be the case in the US that women attempted suicide at a higher rate than men, but men succeed at a higher rate. The difference was said to be the method, and of course guns were a favored method with men.

It is still the case that women attempted suicides is higher and the results a lot lower, but as far as I remember in most cases for women it was just a way to cry for help, not to actually do it, while men were on the other side. I cannot find a link right now, I think it was a video of a psychology class.

Re: To reduce student suicides by hanging to fans, institute in India removes fans

#96

Post by ClumsyPilot »

KrishnaShripad wrote: post #62
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are replacing ceiling fans with wall mounted fans, otherwise non suicide death by heat exhaustion would increase. India is a poorer developing country, so actual AC in the dorms is still out of the question.

That's not true at all. Having AC in dorms is easily possible and affordable too. Centralized AC units comes to mind. Its there in all Government offices anyways. The reason is different and it is even more silly. It has to do with generation gap. If you complain, as a student, about lack of any facilities the immediate response you get from the person in charge (typically of my parent's generation) is: "We used to s…

"Let them struggle a bit. They'll understand harshness of life that way. Else they'll become lazy"

Sounds like old people trying to justofy their capricious behaviour, nothing new. It's like 'backnin my day' and 'millenials'

Re: To reduce student suicides by hanging to fans, institute in India removes fans

#98

Post by ctvo »

Wildgoose wrote: post #97

Wouldn't it make more sense to alter the ceiling fans so that excess weight (e.g. a body) will cause them to detach from the ceiling, preferably also triggering an alarm?

It may even make more sense to address the root cause of the suicides rather than the method used! You’ll need to resolve for balconies next.

Re: To reduce student suicides by hanging to fans, institute in India removes fans

#100

Post by [deleted] »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #91
guerrilla wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Suicide isn't logical or rational. This is bullshit. It may or may not be depending on individual conditions. If someone knows that they will suffer significatly for the rest of their lives, then it's entirely logical ans rational for them to end their life. It would be irrational to continue living if the cons were guaranteed (or even had a high likelyhood) to outweigh the pros.

You ignored the "almost always" part. And for me "suffering" is not that logical or rational at all, for that matter. The expectation of such suffering can be reasonable. The willingness to end this suffering can be reasonable. This, however, is a small minority of suicides, suicide attempts and even more so, suicidal ideation.

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