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Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

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Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#91

Post by phh »

marcan_42 wrote: post #34
Aissen wrote: post #8

Anyone has a pointer to what "Blocked on PSCI discussion" means ? I'd be interested to read those (mailing list?) discussions.

It hasn't really started yet, other than some discussions on IRC, but the TL;DR is on every other ARM64 system those features are handled by either a hypervisor or a supervisor, via special PSCI calls. These machines don't have the option for a supervisor (and no nested virtualization, so an under-OS hypervisor would preclude VMs). Rather than introducing a special snowflake driver for these machines, the current thi…

Implementing a PSCI mechanism in m1n1 sounds like a nice workaround (I could almost consider it an actual fix, even if it's not totally standard), but I'm a bit surprised:

- Doesn't ARMv8 architecture require supervisor mode? You should be able to just pop a good old Arm Trusted Framework sample, implement PSCI in there just like other standard ARMv8?

- Linux kernel already supports various PSCI-less architectures (rpi4 notably for armv8 if I'm not mistaken), so I don't think upstream would mind about that at all?

I guess your proposed approach makes sense when the target is more than just Linux though, do you have hopes that m1n1 could be eventually suitable to boot Windows?

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#92

Post by gigatexal »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #82
gigatexal wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes they're expensive. But how many HP/Dell/Lenovo etc laptops do you have from 2013 that still run like new? My 2013 MacBook Pro with an i7 and 16GB of ram still screams. The trackpad works, no keys fail, the screen is still good being retina. The amount of money paid divided by how long it has lasted me makes it a ~300 USD computer!* *if replaced every year ... or a 900 usd computer if replaced every 3 years.

> But how many HP/Dell/Lenovo etc laptops do you have from 2013 that still run like new? many I don't see many old macs around, because they're harder and more expensive to repair. > if replaced every year that's a big if. The assumption is that Pro market will drive general adoption. It's a false premise. Pro market, especially Apple Pro market, it's predictive of exactly nothing.

> But how many HP/Dell/Lenovo etc laptops do you have from 2013 that still run like new? >> many

I find that hard to believe. You're claiming plastic race-to-the-bottom laptop pc makers are building machines that last as long as all aluminium premium Macs? Fat chance.

Re the software issue, yeah, that's a pain. I do plan on putting Linux on it when I replace it with another Mac laptop, probably a M1. But that just furthers my point that Apple makes the best, longest lasting hardware.

But to each their own.

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#93

Post by nopenopenopeno »

GeneralMaximus wrote: post #44
LeonM wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't get your expectations up too high. My ThinkPad X1E has horrible battery life under Linux, and has a boatload of issues with thunderbolt, the external dock, HDMI port, audio and WiFi. For example: when my Thinkpad goes standby with an external monitor attached via TB, some ACPI interrupt goes insane and starts burning 100% CPU resources. USB ports regularly don't work after stand-by. BMC support seems problemati…

Oh wow, this sounds quite painful. I almost bought the X1E, but now I'm glad I didn't. I'm on a X1 Carbon Gen 9 at the moment. I've had no issues with anything at all, besides having to change some settings on the WiFi chip to prevent the connection from dropping. In fact, Linux has been more reliable with external monitors than my old Intel MacBook. (FWIW, I have a Dell 4k monitor that has documented compatibility i…

FWIW my new Lenovo P1 Gen 4 runs Ubuntu perfectly, and with external monitors. Everything works out of the box with the latest Ubuntu but I run 20.04 which requires a wireless driver install. Super easy. And nvidia graphics drivers with on-demand support is great.

That said, I still miss Apple hardware so I’m still donating to Marcan’s project.

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#94

Post by ericls »

hbbio wrote: post #3

The progress on all fronts is really impressive, and even the write-up is top notch. The pace at which the team advances is incredible, as it seems Apple support is minimal... Maybe the core tech users is negligible to Apple, but it shouldn't be: Winning over the power users generally precedes larger adoption and I wouldn't be surprised if Macs continue to gain market share in the years to come with their CPU lead.

If it can run linux, it can conquer data center

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#95

Post by gigatexal »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #82
gigatexal wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes they're expensive. But how many HP/Dell/Lenovo etc laptops do you have from 2013 that still run like new? My 2013 MacBook Pro with an i7 and 16GB of ram still screams. The trackpad works, no keys fail, the screen is still good being retina. The amount of money paid divided by how long it has lasted me makes it a ~300 USD computer!* *if replaced every year ... or a 900 usd computer if replaced every 3 years.

> But how many HP/Dell/Lenovo etc laptops do you have from 2013 that still run like new? many I don't see many old macs around, because they're harder and more expensive to repair. > if replaced every year that's a big if. The assumption is that Pro market will drive general adoption. It's a false premise. Pro market, especially Apple Pro market, it's predictive of exactly nothing.

> that's a big if. > The assumption is that Pro market will drive general adoption. > It's a false premise. > Pro market, especially Apple Pro market, it's predictive of exactly nothing.

Hah. It is actually. Apple releases the MacBook Air... what does the PC market do in lock step? Try to copy it. We can thank Apple for insisting on SSDs in the laptop for all our PC laptops having them. When Apple moves industries follow. That won't be like that forever but it is currently.

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#96

Post by lillecarl »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #31
saagarjha wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that your workload that uses 64 GB of RAM and 2 1 TB SSDs could benefit from an extremely fast processor.

The point is that I can find the performance I need for half the price. The price of an M1 Pro it's not justified by a slightly faster CPU, no matter how low the power usage is. I could understand 20% more, but not two times. Also: most of my workflows wouldn't work natively on ARM Macs. That doesn't mean Apple doesn't have a great product with a big market. They simply will never be mainstream. My answer was to I wo…

It's weird isn't it, how Apple might become the first 3 trillion dollar company.... Even if all their products are overpriced horseshit. One could almost assume people value what Apple is making and are willing to pay for it.

Their products aren't twice as expensive, their upgrades might be (RAM, iPhone storage) but the base models aren't very expensive if you compare it with "closest to comparable" competitor models.

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#97

Post by bestouff »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #76
boplicity wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> who would spend 1.500 euros (in Europe) for a laptop that has a limit of 16gb of RAM? Let's say you use a laptop for 6 hours a day, five days a week, 48 weeks a year, and that it lasts for 3 years. That's 4,320 hours of usage. For many people, it's worth paying 35 cents per hour to use a machine that's even just a little bit better than one that costs half that. I'm writing this on a high-end Macbook Pro that's 8 y…

> For many people, it's worth paying 35 cents per hour to use a machine that's even just a little bit better than one that costs half that That's my point. Some people would. Quoting myself people with lots of money to waste. Does that mean that Apple is Winning over the power users (that) generally precedes larger adoption ? Absolutely not. Anyway: spending less for the same output is better than spending more for t…

My job bought me whatever laptop I needed, so I got a beefed-up XPS 15 (i9, 64gb). If the M1 max could run Linux I would have bought that instead.

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#98

Post by boris »

minimaul wrote: post #64

It's still not really ready for prime-time, but I've got a M1 mac mini running debian as an arm64 build bot (and a few other small things) now, and I can say that the bits that work, work really well. Storage is fast, CPU performance is solid, PCIe for ethernet works just fine. Now if I could just get one with 64G of RAM and 2TB of SSD... ;) edit: the setup process is still far from polished but that's not unexpected…

If you have the time to share the details, I would definitely appreciate them (looking to do something like this myself). In particular, on which hardware did you build the kernel? Or did you cross-compile it? Also which bootloader did you use? Thanks in advance!

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#99

Post by dagw »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #90
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm looking at prices on the French Apple website and it says 7 cores GPU / 16GB RAM / 256GB SSD 1.359 euros https://i.imgur.com/udZSqAz.png 8 core GPU / 16GB RAM / 512GB SSD 1.629 euros https://i.imgur.com/QacUu2X.png I'm not saying it isn't the price people will pay, I'm only saying it's a price point that will convince people to upgrade, but won't allow Apple market to expand in a meaningful way. Apple had already…

It's not interesting to buy these laptops straight from Apple. Large national resellers like Darty or Fnac offer better services and discount them very often. > Pro Macs are not iPhones, there are countless alternatives. I have a very different reading of the market. I don't think iPhones are priced competitively. They are not really better than Android phones which are far cheaper. That's why they have such a ridicu…

That's why they have such a ridiculously low market share in Europe.

Phone market share in Europe[1]:

Apple 35.42%

Samsung 30.81%

Xiaomi 11.71%

edit: some other sources have it Samsung 32%, Apple 28% and yet others Samsung: 30% and Apple: 22%, but either way hardly "ridiculously low"

[1] https://gs.statcounter.com/vendor-market-share/mobile/europe

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#100

Post by dijit »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #88
dijit wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The price seems to be comparable to premium lines of PC's. Dell XPS and HP Elitebooks often meet or exceed the price of comparable MacBooks.

> The price seems to be comparable to premium lines of PC's. How many times people said that the Air is the "entry level" "low budget" Mac? Which one is true? Is it a luxury product or an entry level one? I can quote many comments saying both things in the same thread. Anyway, no company pays Lenovo full price and their discount policies are far more aggressive than Apple's. There's a reason: Apple doesn't undersell,…

> Is it a luxury product or an entry level one?

Obviously: Both.

The absolute "entry" point is the Mac mini.

The MacBook Air a low spec "luxury" quality device for people who want a well built laptop (that has decent battery life and a good screen) but do not have heavy demands on performance.

If your argument is discounts then I don't support that pricing model (unpredictable frenetic oscillation) anyway.

And, yah, if you're a company you get a flat rate discount based on volume with Apple products.

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