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Physicist cuts plane boarding time in half

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Re: Physicist cuts plane boarding time in half

#91

Post by yardie »

davvid wrote: post #53
colonelxc wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the main problem with this method is that it is socially unacceptable to split up families and groups while they wait to board and are boarding. I think a slightly less efficient approach would be to somewhat batch up rows. So instead of having all of the people in the window aisle on one side of the plane enter, how about have 1 row of people (typically 3) on one side of the plane. Instead of doing every row at…

Another simple solution would be to board from back-to-front. Right now it's front-to-back: the business-class passengers (at the front of the plane) board first. Economy class boards last and each passenger has to walk through the congestion. Getting business-class travellers to give up their sense of entitlement and board last could be a little tricky, though. I'm sure there's a psychological marketing trick that c…

Most airlines board back to front, excluding business and first of course. But it just ends up taking the same amount of time as front to back. It's not the people taking seats on an empty plane that is the problem. It's the last few that are having trouble finding overhead storage and have to hunt up and down the aisle for a place to put their bag.

Also, you can't give up business entitlement. It's built into the price and the passengers paid for it. The entire reason they buy F/J tickets are boarding priority, good seats, better food, newer IFEs, and higher luggage allowances. They also get a glass of champagne or wine, something they wouldn't be able to receive if they were the last to board.

Also a coach and F/J fare is the difference between a $1/pass and $1000/pass profit.

Re: Physicist cuts plane boarding time in half

#92

Post by yardie »

cma wrote: post #16
kemayo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though back-to-front means that the expensive passengers can arrive closer to the departure time, and don't have to suffer through everyone in economy shuffling by them and hitting them with their carry-on. It does cost them some flexibility, in that they can't board as soon as they arrive. But my experience is that sitting outside of a plane is generally far nicer than sitting in first class... at least on domestic…

You misunderstand a big part of a first class ticket. The curtain between first class and economy class doesn't make the seats more comfortable. It keeps "undesirables" out of the sight of snobs. If airlines want snobs to board later, they better install curtains segregating the lobby.

The curtain is there to keep people that don't have any business there out. Most of the international flights have layflat seats in F/J sections. And most people don't put their iPods/kindles/iPads away when they fall asleep so the casual person could walk up and walk away with something.

It's also there to keep them out of their toilets. When you have 40 people in coach waiting for 2 toilets and 2 unused ones in first the first you gotta make the firsties feel better for buying a more expensive ticket.

Re: Physicist cuts plane boarding time in half

#93

Post by ColinWright »

This has been going on for over 2 1/2 years now. At that time we had this item submitted:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=419360

It looks like it's the same physicist, and the same algorithm. Further more, HN had pretty much exactly the same discussion.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

There's another submission from over a month ago here:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2790023

In that it's described how ...

    American Airlines undertook a two-year study to try and
    speed up boarding. The result: The airline has recently
    rolled out a new strategy—randomized boarding.
I haven't seen any news of how that panned out.

This submission from 1300 days ago - http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=111416 - is a paper from Arxiv, suggesting that boarding times can be cut by a factor of 4. Guess who it's by - yup, our favorite physicist again. So he's been at this for 3.5 years. There are just 5 comments on that submission.

This latest paper is here: http://arxiv.org/abs/1108.5211

That was linked to from this submission: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2943615

It was also referenced in the article pointed to in this submission: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2943003

All in all, a popular topic that's been going for 3.5 years from this one physicist at least.

Despite his perseverance, it hasn't been adopted on any of the flights I've been on.

========

So here's a list of some of the previous HN items on this topic:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=111416

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=419360

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=924855

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2790023

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2943003

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2943615

Re: Physicist cuts plane boarding time in half

#94

Post by yardie »

mturmon wrote: post #72
mikeash wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once got bumped up to Business Class and the experience sorely tempted me to spend the extra money in the future. It had nothing to do with smugness and everything to do with a seat that isn't painfully small, enough legroom to avoid being horribly cramped, ability to recline more than five degrees, and food that didn't make me want to vomit in terror.

All that you said, and also that the staff is much more willing to cater to your needs.

It's not willingness. Coach can be just as demanding but F and J are demanding more often.

Most of the coach passengers are just glad to be onboard, like they didn't think they'd get in. And they don't fly frequently enough to know what to ask for. The F and J are usually frequent fliers, know exactly what they are entitled to and ask for every time.

Re: Physicist cuts plane boarding time in half

#95

Post by notahacker »

ColinWright wrote: post #93

This has been going on for over 2 1/2 years now. At that time we had this item submitted: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=419360 It looks like it's the same physicist, and the same algorithm. Further more, HN had pretty much exactly the same discussion. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose. There's another submission from over a month ago here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2790023 In that it's describe…

Given that he's been studying it for a while, it's received news coverage and airlines have been very keen to find ways of saving money over the past 3.5 years, it probably doesn't work nearly as well in practice...

Faster method of boarding still: don't assign seats within classes.

Re: Physicist cuts plane boarding time in half

#96

Post by alttag »

The article makes the assumption (or at least fails to demonstrate) that the bottleneck is boarding, as opposed to deplaning or cleaning. Other processes which may be done in parallel could just as easily be a bottleneck: food, sanitation, gas, luggage, and such.

And with super-fast turn-around times, airlines might have less time for inspections or maintenance, as we've seen with Southwest's recent problems. (Southwest reportedly has the fastest turn-around time in the industry, in part due to their standardized fleet.)

Re: Physicist cuts plane boarding time in half

#97

Post by mgkimsal »

joshwa wrote: post #55
mgkimsal wrote: post #41

I flew a few weeks ago and dialogued (argued? - tried to be good natured about it!) with the boarding staff at 3 different gates about boarding processes. I suggested they try windows first, then middle seats, then aisle seats. 2 out of the 3 argued back that the way they were doing it had been 'proven' by some study some years back by... either a Finnish airline, or some studies in Arizona - I honestly can't remembe…

Please don't harass the gate agents unless they look really idle. They don't have control over the boarding process, and they are desperately trying to get everyone on board, seat change requests accommodated, standby and upgrade list cleared, plane catered, wheelchairs, minors, gate checked baggage, strollers, etc., all the while dealing with a bombardment of impatient, indignant, overtired, and entitled "customers"…

I should have reworded this - it was pleasant as could be and typically about 10 seconds of conversation as they're scanning the boarding pass. It was more curious to me that 2 of them referenced a 'study' done - almost as if it was a talking point.

I try to be as fast and polite as possible in those moments, simply because I see many other people being rude/short with them.

And to the other point, yes, I understand they're not making the rules.

re: being measured by "turn around" time - I'd end up quitting if I was measured by a process which I had no control over (and even in low/minimum wage jobs, I've ended up doing so).

Re: Physicist cuts plane boarding time in half

#98

Post by yannis »

It always puzzled me that a simpler algorithm has never been considered.

Passengers with heavier hand luggage or more than one piece (say hand-luggage and laptop) should be given back-seats. Anyone without hand luggage should be placed at the front seats.

Re: Physicist cuts plane boarding time in half

#99

Post by nvictor »

ColinWright wrote: post #93

This has been going on for over 2 1/2 years now. At that time we had this item submitted: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=419360 It looks like it's the same physicist, and the same algorithm. Further more, HN had pretty much exactly the same discussion. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose. There's another submission from over a month ago here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2790023 In that it's describe…

Sherlock? :O

Re: Physicist cuts plane boarding time in half

#100

Post by artmageddon »

martingordon wrote: post #13

He should totally patent his boarding method. Who cares that it could save the airlines billions? He could rake in so much dough by licensing the method or suing airlines who use his method without a license! And if the patent is vague enough, he could probably collect on all the other inferior boarding methods too! In all seriousness, the boarding problem only got worse once airlines started charging for bags as peo…

I usually travel pretty lightly, but this is one reason that I love flying with Southwest.
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