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Crypto unlikely to survive as investment if unregulated, SEC chairman says

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Re: Crypto unlikely to survive as investment if unregulated, SEC chairman says

#91

Post by madsbuch »

RivieraKid wrote: post #77

Crypto's price has been driven by the increase in crypto allocation in the total world investment portfolio. Right now crypto is at 2.6T, gold 11T, stocks are 122T. The percentage of crypto in the world portfolio can't grow forever though. Once it reaches its limit, the harsh reality will very slowly start to settle in. Crypto doesn't generate any value (unlike stocks, bonds, real estate) and doesn't have any intrins…

Why doesn't it generate any value?

There are crypto networks that does betting. The natural next thing is insurance, which can be considered a special case of betting.

The "harsh" truth might very well be, that a lot of industries that have been governed by priviliged organisations will turn into algorithmically governed DAOs.

A lot of people in the financial sector will probably loose their job, as cheaper alternatives for financial products will occur in self regulated algorithmically governed systems.

The "bitcoin is the crypto definition" view should be abandoned. And it should be understood that crypto means algoritgmically governed economies for now. Later it will be algorithmic governance.

Ie. Cryptos market cap is at least equal to the financial sector. And probably we are only scratching the surface with that statement.

Re: Crypto unlikely to survive as investment if unregulated, SEC chairman says

#92

Post by frockington1 »

spiderice wrote: post #81
frockington1 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd be hard to do in the US as its not a tax. The 5th amendment is pretty clear stating "nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.", Now that crypto is main stream the backlash would be immense and citizens have the 2nd amendment (in some states) to back it up.

I think we're talking about different things. I'm not saying the government is going to take try and just take everybody's crypto. But they absolutely could regulate in any way the want, just like with fiat. In other words, crypto changes absolutely nothing when it comes to the relationship the government has with your money. If the government wants your money and you don't give it to them, you go to jail. Crypto isn…

Is crypto considered money though or is this more equivalent to the government coming in and repurposing your tv? Generally curious, not trying to pile on what if scenarios

Re: Crypto unlikely to survive as investment if unregulated, SEC chairman says

#93

Post by e9 »

Nav_Panel wrote: post #89
e9 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To play fair we need some rules to the game. You can’t punch in a face during the basketball game and once someone starts doing it all the time then most would stop playing at that point and go play another game.

Crypto has rules too, does it not? They're just algorithmic, which some believe is far worse, but others believe is best.

Yes there are some rules. But for the majority of people if someone takes advantage of you, with algorithm or socially, then there is no way to punish them. You have to be careful. You can solve this by educating people to be cognizant of risks but who will do that? Where is the incentive? If you are big enough in any game the rules are different. Think of Etherium DAO when it got hacked they decided not to play in the original network and fork it and play a different game.

Re: Crypto unlikely to survive as investment if unregulated, SEC chairman says

#94

Post by overview »

RivieraKid wrote: post #77

Crypto's price has been driven by the increase in crypto allocation in the total world investment portfolio. Right now crypto is at 2.6T, gold 11T, stocks are 122T. The percentage of crypto in the world portfolio can't grow forever though. Once it reaches its limit, the harsh reality will very slowly start to settle in. Crypto doesn't generate any value (unlike stocks, bonds, real estate) and doesn't have any intrins…

Because there will be a time where for every 1+% that USD inflates, bitcoin won’t.

Re: Crypto unlikely to survive as investment if unregulated, SEC chairman says

#95

Post by RivieraKid »

overview wrote: post #94
RivieraKid wrote: post #77

Crypto's price has been driven by the increase in crypto allocation in the total world investment portfolio. Right now crypto is at 2.6T, gold 11T, stocks are 122T. The percentage of crypto in the world portfolio can't grow forever though. Once it reaches its limit, the harsh reality will very slowly start to settle in. Crypto doesn't generate any value (unlike stocks, bonds, real estate) and doesn't have any intrins…

Because there will be a time where for every 1+% that USD inflates, bitcoin won’t.

But Bitcoin is not competing against currency, it's competing against investment assets.

Also, inflation is simply not a problem. 2.5% on average over the last 20 years, and almost no volatility. Bitcoin will never achieve that level of volatility because there's no central authority which directs its value.

Re: Crypto unlikely to survive as investment if unregulated, SEC chairman says

#96

Post by spiderice »

frockington1 wrote: post #92
spiderice wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we're talking about different things. I'm not saying the government is going to take try and just take everybody's crypto. But they absolutely could regulate in any way the want, just like with fiat. In other words, crypto changes absolutely nothing when it comes to the relationship the government has with your money. If the government wants your money and you don't give it to them, you go to jail. Crypto isn…

Is crypto considered money though or is this more equivalent to the government coming in and repurposing your tv? Generally curious, not trying to pile on what if scenarios

Definitely money. You really think the government is just going to let you loophole your way out of taxes?

When was the last time TV’s went up in value by thousands of times, creating tons of millionaires and billionaires, and advertised itself as a money replacement? The government isn’t stupid when it comes to collecting your money.

Re: Crypto unlikely to survive as investment if unregulated, SEC chairman says

#97

Post by impulser_ »

RivieraKid wrote: post #95
overview wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because there will be a time where for every 1+% that USD inflates, bitcoin won’t.

But Bitcoin is not competing against currency, it's competing against investment assets. Also, inflation is simply not a problem. 2.5% on average over the last 20 years, and almost no volatility. Bitcoin will never achieve that level of volatility because there's no central authority which directs its value.

Yes it will. As the value of an asset increases the less volatile it becomes.

Gold and the USD were very volatile assets in the beginning. Only recently has the USD become stable.

You don't need a central authority to direct the value.

Re: Crypto unlikely to survive as investment if unregulated, SEC chairman says

#98

Post by Jansen312 »

kaycebasques wrote: post #66
asmos7 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact but the gov basically stole gold from ppl b4 in the good ole USA. They made it illegal to hold - if you were caught having gold it was a 10k fine. PPL were forced to go to their banks and sell their gold at a loss. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102#:~:text=E... . That article uses the term hoarding but don't be fooled they made holding any relevant amount of gold for investment illegal. You…

I have heard mixed things about the historical event you're mentioning. I've heard it was a law that wasn't strongly enforced. Of course just having the law in the books probably served its purpose of reducing gold transactions. But that's different than the government actively fining people $10K. Which would be like $200K today by the way. Also, I'm not sure if it is an apples-to-apples comparison. Back then the mai…

No strongly enforced means it will be selectively enforced. And there are many such opportunities to do so for a government if they need some leverage on certain individuals. And these days, a Jury can be bypassed making Jury nullifications immaterial. Essentially it is government or more like unelected bureaucrats becoming overloads over private individuals.

Re: Crypto unlikely to survive as investment if unregulated, SEC chairman says

#99

Post by simonebrunozzi »

asmos7 wrote: post #20
toomuchtodo wrote: post #9

It is difficult to get a crypto proponent to understand something, when their crypto wealth depends on them not understanding it. EDIT: If you steal my gold or other metal store of value, I can pursue you in court and recover my loss (either the actual materials lost or fiat value). If you steal my single named security, I can pursue you in court and recover my loss (or the clearinghouse will reverse the transaction)…

Fun fact but the gov basically stole gold from ppl b4 in the good ole USA. They made it illegal to hold - if you were caught having gold it was a 10k fine. PPL were forced to go to their banks and sell their gold at a loss. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102#:~:text=E... . That article uses the term hoarding but don't be fooled they made holding any relevant amount of gold for investment illegal. You…

> ppl b4

Please do not abbreviate words like this. It makes the text harder to read.

Re: Crypto unlikely to survive as investment if unregulated, SEC chairman says

#100

Post by RivieraKid »

impulser_ wrote: post #97
RivieraKid wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Bitcoin is not competing against currency, it's competing against investment assets. Also, inflation is simply not a problem. 2.5% on average over the last 20 years, and almost no volatility. Bitcoin will never achieve that level of volatility because there's no central authority which directs its value.

Yes it will. As the value of an asset increases the less volatile it becomes. Gold and the USD were very volatile assets in the beginning. Only recently has the USD become stable. You don't need a central authority to direct the value.

So you're saying that central bank inflation targeting doesn't decrease volatility? That is simply wrong.

Gold has a high volatility and Bitcoin even higher.

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