Moth Minds: Fund individuals doing work you believe in • Hacker News Board

Re: Moth Minds: Fund individuals doing work you believe in

#91

Post by R0b0t1 » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 5:45 AM UTC

koheripbal wrote: post #58

yosito wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would like $100k to work on the Collatz conjecture for 6 months > I have no credentials Then why would you need $100k to work on mathematics?

I'm saying I have no formal credentials in Math specifically, not no professional credentials in any field. 100k for six months would be a pay cut for me, but maybe you're right... Maybe I'm being greedy at the opportunity to make a real contribution. At the end of the day I still need to feed/house a family of five so the 100k is still ballpark, but maybe I can set aside a few more than 6 months. 10? Not that it mat…

In your case I think you would be better served by being able to discuss with a mathematics faculty in a way similar to what happens naturally in academia.

I think it's not just money but the ability to more freely go back to school. It is difficult-ish to get the funding for, essentially, self-directed research during the best years of your life, and basically impossible if you don't already have an undergraduate degree.

Re: Moth Minds: Fund individuals doing work you believe in

#92

Post by quickthrower2 » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 5:52 AM UTC

koheripbal wrote: post #58

yosito wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would like $100k to work on the Collatz conjecture for 6 months > I have no credentials Then why would you need $100k to work on mathematics?

I'm saying I have no formal credentials in Math specifically, not no professional credentials in any field. 100k for six months would be a pay cut for me, but maybe you're right... Maybe I'm being greedy at the opportunity to make a real contribution. At the end of the day I still need to feed/house a family of five so the 100k is still ballpark, but maybe I can set aside a few more than 6 months. 10? Not that it mat…

This is the problem of lifestyle creep. I have the same problem too, though I earn less than that. If everyone could live off next to nothing maybe we’d all have time to solve stuff sans-grants.

Sadly if you decide to have a family in an expensive COL then you are kinda out of the race for bang-for-buck grants unless you are genius level talented.

Re: Moth Minds: Fund individuals doing work you believe in

#93

Post by smugglerFlynn » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 6:48 AM UTC

R0b0t1 wrote: post #88

ok_dad wrote: post #33

I would love to work on open source, well designed, free software to control distributed energy resources and building load. Currently I've worked for several companies doing this, but I think that closed source, non free software will never allow us to truly reach the full electrification and decarbonization we need, and the power grid, both generation and transmission, is only getting more complex to manage with th…

Ah, I was looking at similar stuff, among other things, so keep me in mind. Me and my coworkers have a running gag where we predict things years in advance, but we just don't have access to the capital to do it... so someone else who does have money eventually does it, and a lot worse than we would have. These things happen every day. Think: Do you want some nontechnical banker making decisions about what startup get…

> Do you want some nontechnical banker making decisions about what startup gets funding or someone who actually understands the scientific and social impact of a technology?

On one hand, the latter would be cool.

On the other, I want decisions made by people committed to the cause. Understanding does not get you very far. “Some nontechnical bankers” often spend years of their life dedicated for a cause, dealing with all the non-scientific bureaucracy which is necessary to get this job done, and which constitute 90% of it (not to mention all the responsibility and risk).

How much time, risk and responsibility does your ‘running gag’ require now? Are you sure you would choose to be that banker, and actually spend your life on this?

Re: Moth Minds: Fund individuals doing work you believe in

#94

Post by R0b0t1 » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 7:12 AM UTC

smugglerFlynn wrote: post #93

R0b0t1 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, I was looking at similar stuff, among other things, so keep me in mind. Me and my coworkers have a running gag where we predict things years in advance, but we just don't have access to the capital to do it... so someone else who does have money eventually does it, and a lot worse than we would have. These things happen every day. Think: Do you want some nontechnical banker making decisions about what startup get…

> Do you want some nontechnical banker making decisions about what startup gets funding or someone who actually understands the scientific and social impact of a technology? On one hand, the latter would be cool. On the other, I want decisions made by people committed to the cause. Understanding does not get you very far. “Some nontechnical bankers” often spend years of their life dedicated for a cause, dealing with…

People who don't really understand the cause and can find employment separate from it likely aren't committed to it. A banker may not have the necessary training to understand what is going on and likely can find employment with someone else who needs paperwork filed. They may be necessary but putting them in charge of the money is a bad idea because they don't have expertise on the things they are deciding and get paid lots of money (but maybe slightly less) even if they are wrong. In some cases they just rig the rules so they never lose.

To be clear what was happening was random gadgets or improvements to an existing product would be discussed, and then invariably we'd see it later. You can claim it was inevitable but if we knew years before they ever did it then the only reason we weren't the ones making money was a lack of capital.

Re: Moth Minds: Fund individuals doing work you believe in

#95

Post by jowdones » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 7:22 AM UTC

chubs wrote: post #79

I'm working on an open-source project that I think should show some value if we can get it off the ground. My concern is that this sponsorship model is a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem: You can't attract sponsorship at early stages, because all you have to show is 'hopes and dreams'. But once it's done, you don't really need sponsorship as much: it's done and I'll move onto the next project. And to get from the ear…

Get a job.

Re: Moth Minds: Fund individuals doing work you believe in

#96

Post by yosito » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 7:45 AM UTC

quickthrower2 wrote: post #92

koheripbal wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm saying I have no formal credentials in Math specifically, not no professional credentials in any field. 100k for six months would be a pay cut for me, but maybe you're right... Maybe I'm being greedy at the opportunity to make a real contribution. At the end of the day I still need to feed/house a family of five so the 100k is still ballpark, but maybe I can set aside a few more than 6 months. 10? Not that it mat…

This is the problem of lifestyle creep. I have the same problem too, though I earn less than that. If everyone could live off next to nothing maybe we’d all have time to solve stuff sans-grants. Sadly if you decide to have a family in an expensive COL then you are kinda out of the race for bang-for-buck grants unless you are genius level talented.

> If everyone could live off next to nothing maybe we’d all have time to solve stuff sans-grants.

I think this is, theoretically, one of the promises of communism. When I was in Cuba, I went to a local theater production of Don Quixote. It was free, and no one got any money from it, yet it was professional-level quality. In good times at least, under comminism, people have the freedom to explore their passions, because the state takes care of all their essential needs. Sadly, communism rarely leads to good times, and I can tell you for certian that none of my Cuban friends would say that the state adequately provides for their needs most of the time. It's a nice idea, at least.

Re: Moth Minds: Fund individuals doing work you believe in

#97

Post by astrange » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 7:58 AM UTC

R0b0t1 wrote: post #88

ok_dad wrote: post #33

I would love to work on open source, well designed, free software to control distributed energy resources and building load. Currently I've worked for several companies doing this, but I think that closed source, non free software will never allow us to truly reach the full electrification and decarbonization we need, and the power grid, both generation and transmission, is only getting more complex to manage with th…

Ah, I was looking at similar stuff, among other things, so keep me in mind. Me and my coworkers have a running gag where we predict things years in advance, but we just don't have access to the capital to do it... so someone else who does have money eventually does it, and a lot worse than we would have. These things happen every day. Think: Do you want some nontechnical banker making decisions about what startup get…

We're in a relatively environment to get capital now; not sure it's ever been easier. Beyond the site in the OP, there's Patreon and equity crowdfunding like Wefunder. Though I think the best bet traditionally was to marry someone with a government job before quitting, so you can use their health insurance.

Re: Moth Minds: Fund individuals doing work you believe in

#98

Post by smugglerFlynn » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 8:15 AM UTC

R0b0t1 wrote: post #94

smugglerFlynn wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you want some nontechnical banker making decisions about what startup gets funding or someone who actually understands the scientific and social impact of a technology? On one hand, the latter would be cool. On the other, I want decisions made by people committed to the cause. Understanding does not get you very far. “Some nontechnical bankers” often spend years of their life dedicated for a cause, dealing with…

People who don't really understand the cause and can find employment separate from it likely aren't committed to it. A banker may not have the necessary training to understand what is going on and likely can find employment with someone else who needs paperwork filed. They may be necessary but putting them in charge of the money is a bad idea because they don't have expertise on the things they are deciding and get p…

> the only reason we weren't the ones making money was a lack of capital

I understand your point.

But all that is just saying “The only reason I am not Batman is my lack of batsuit, mansion and a butler”.

Most important, I think “technological insights” are overrated. Insights are valued exactly because among investors tech savviness comes rare. But If you want to play in the same field, you need all the other pieces and skills (including the capital, but you might also get hired as an analyst or consultant, so it does not seem to be a critical blocker of capitalizing your knowledge).

So what really stops you from “fighting crime”?

Re: Moth Minds: Fund individuals doing work you believe in

#99

Post by pjerem » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 8:45 AM UTC

greyface- wrote: post #69

nathancahill wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even I wouldn't fund me. I mean, that's the heart of it right there. You're netting $200k+ but you wouldn't set aside six months expenses and take a sabbatical to work on your idea. So why would someone else?

> So why would someone else? Because different people have different marginal utilities of money. It's not implausible that there is someone (or a group of people) out there who is interested in seeing the Collatz conjecture proven, who places less value on the $100k than koheripbal does.

What you fail to understand is that when you net 200k$, you are rich. There's a moral issue to ask other to fund your rich lifestyle to allow you work on something and on top of that, taking all the fame in case of success.

It's ok to be on the top 1% by the benefits of you work. However, it's hard to justify asking others to finance your stay on the top 1% for charity.

Re: Moth Minds: Fund individuals doing work you believe in

#100

Post by greyface- » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 8:50 AM UTC

pjerem wrote: post #99

greyface- wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So why would someone else? Because different people have different marginal utilities of money. It's not implausible that there is someone (or a group of people) out there who is interested in seeing the Collatz conjecture proven, who places less value on the $100k than koheripbal does.

What you fail to understand is that when you net 200k$, you are rich. There's a moral issue to ask other to fund your rich lifestyle to allow you work on something and on top of that, taking all the fame in case of success. It's ok to be on the top 1% by the benefits of you work. However, it's hard to justify asking others to finance your stay on the top 1% for charity.

I don't disagree with you -- $200k is a lot, especially by global standards. But I encourage you to check the Form 990s filed with the IRS by your favorite 501 charity, and see how much is spent on e.g. executive salaries. This kind of compensation is not uncommon.