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Safari Ruined My Tuesday

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Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#91

Post by m_st »

Vinnl wrote: post #75

Heh, reading the title I thought this was going to be someone losing all their tabs because "clear history" on mobile Safari apparently does that: https://twitter.com/SaraSoueidan/status/1457307545815732233 > Oh dear God.. Clearing history on Safari iOS closes all currently-opened tabs?! Why is there nothing that warns you of that?! Why does clearing history on mobile work differently from the way it does on mac? I h…

I was struck by that too. Don't know why or how or with which action, but lost all my opened tabs on my iPhone a few weeks ago.

Luckily it was really just work "in progress", but never the less I've lost information. Which shouldn't happen in 2021.

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#92

Post by easton »

philo23 wrote: post #89
wffurr wrote: post #67

Part of the problem is the very slow release cadence of Safari. Features are tied to annual OS releases, bug fixes seem to often not meet the bar for incremental updates, which have no discernable schedule.

I think Safari is now the only big non-evergreen browser remaining out there, and I think it's really holding it back. On both security fixes and features. I hope some point in the future Apple untie Safari from macOS and iOS so they can be updated independently without having to wait months to operating system updates to come out..

Safari actually does get backported to previous macOS releases, at least during betas. You can run the Safari "Technology Preview" on n-1 macOS. https://developer.apple.com/safari/technology-preview/

But they aren't backported on iOS, I assume purely for marketing (look at our new tab layout! you'll get it in the fall), which doesn't make sense considering the last time anyone cared about a browser feature was probably when tabs were added to IE7.

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#93

Post by pndy »

Turing_Machine wrote: post #54
jabbany wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing wrong with the browser being the next generation cross-platform execution environment. All the older options for this (Java, Flash etc.) sucked... I would like to see a strong competitor to Chrome someday though... - Firefox still has weird issues occasionally (most recently scroll position randomly jumping sometimes). I still keep it around though because its sane when it comes to standards and will…

> Safari is out of the question as it is not even cross-platform At the moment. Apple has a fairly long history of keeping cross-platform ports alive even if they aren't publicly available (that's why the transitions from 68K->PowerPC->Intel->Apple Silicon have been relatively smooth). I would bet that Apple could roll out a cross-platform Safari in fairly short order, should the powers that be decide that it makes b…

I doubt there's any Windows version developed at Apple even in secrecy; they definitely abandon that operating system and decided focusing on their own macOS and features it comes with and their cloud services is the only way. While they do support iCloud on Windows to some extent, there's no support on Linux nor under Android. At least no official one that's done in super-easy way.

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#94

Post by frou_dh »

klodolph wrote: post #5

> It's like living with IE6 again There is a CSS bug. CSS bugs are dirt common. It's a miracle that there are as few CSS bugs as there are. However, I remember IE6. IE6 was a total fucking mess. Everything was broken on IE6. It wasn't just a bug, it was a complete support nightmare. I routinely encounter problems with CSS that reveal maddening differences between Chrome, Firefox, and Safari. That's just for desktop.…

Most Safari comment threads have people looking for an excuse to use the phrase "The new IE" as if it's a zinger they came up with.

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#95

Post by PeterisP »

tediousdemise wrote: post #90
Vinnl wrote: post #75

Heh, reading the title I thought this was going to be someone losing all their tabs because "clear history" on mobile Safari apparently does that: https://twitter.com/SaraSoueidan/status/1457307545815732233 > Oh dear God.. Clearing history on Safari iOS closes all currently-opened tabs?! Why is there nothing that warns you of that?! Why does clearing history on mobile work differently from the way it does on mac? I h…

It boggles my mind that people use tabs like bookmarks. Not only does this usually destroy your available RAM, but its just not the right tool for the job. You are using a hammer like a screwdriver. To each their own, I guess. Just don't get mad when your browser crashes from overloading with tabs, or when you clear your history and it triggers the expected behavior of closing them. It would be a huge privacy concern…

I fully disagree. IMHO other open tabs are part of the current app state (not its history) just as the currently active tab. Do you expect clearing history to close the window you are currently looking at? None of the multiple browsers I use would close any open tabs when you clear browser history, at least on computers - mobile UX might be different, though, but I don't use mobile browsing much perhaps this is a source of differing expectations?

Regarding crashes, I fully expect that a browser which crashes or gets forcibly closed (e.g. the computer losing power) will restore all the open tabs afterwards, and modern browsers do succeed in doing that, if they did not, I would consider that as a bug to be fixed.

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#96

Post by Tsiklon »

tediousdemise wrote: post #90
Vinnl wrote: post #75

Heh, reading the title I thought this was going to be someone losing all their tabs because "clear history" on mobile Safari apparently does that: https://twitter.com/SaraSoueidan/status/1457307545815732233 > Oh dear God.. Clearing history on Safari iOS closes all currently-opened tabs?! Why is there nothing that warns you of that?! Why does clearing history on mobile work differently from the way it does on mac? I h…

It boggles my mind that people use tabs like bookmarks. Not only does this usually destroy your available RAM, but its just not the right tool for the job. You are using a hammer like a screwdriver. To each their own, I guess. Just don't get mad when your browser crashes from overloading with tabs, or when you clear your history and it triggers the expected behavior of closing them. It would be a huge privacy concern…

On mobile, iOS will aggressively swap out webpages that haven’t been looked at in a while, though it still maintains the presence of the tab in the window. Navigate back to a paged out tab and it will force a page reload.

The swapping behaviour seems to be good at stopping leaky sites from ruining your browsing experience.

Personally I am also guilty of using tabs like bookmarks. Especially on mobile. Though I do think that if the aggressive swapping wasn’t done, this behaviour wouldn’t be so prevalent.

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#97

Post by roydivision »

wffurr wrote: post #67

Part of the problem is the very slow release cadence of Safari. Features are tied to annual OS releases, bug fixes seem to often not meet the bar for incremental updates, which have no discernable schedule.

This here is for me one of the biggest problems with Apple. I imagine this sort of eye of Sauron inside the company, whatever the eye rests on gets attention, anything else takes a back seat. They don’t seem to be able to multitask.

There are severe bugs in iOS Mail app for instance that have been there for years, through major iOS versions. How difficult would it be to have a team dedicated to fixing bugs outside the release cycle? It would provide a great environment for up and coming developers. And I can’t help thinking that fixing these paper cut issues would gain Apple respect, maybe not from the average user, but certainly from the sort of user that notices those details.

And perhaps also an easier way of raising bugs…

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#98

Post by breakfastduck »

jabbany wrote: post #46
lights0123 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GNOME Web is officially recommended by Apple for testing WebKit on Linux. The devtools even look identical to those on Safari.

Hmm, so I'm assuming from this post that this same Safari CSS bug is present in GNOME Web too? 'Cause if it isn't then it's not really a good proxy for testing Safari behavior in this context...

WebKit is the engine safari uses so anything that uses WebKit should in theory provide the exact same rendering experience.

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#99

Post by breakfastduck »

jtbayly wrote: post #68
Dma54rhs wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As dumb as it was, IE was providing free VMs preloaded with IE versions for developers. Apple is horribly developer hostile. My company refuses to test and run around with Safari bugs, the advice is to install a better browser.

Then I won’t be a customer. Is the best quality browser for me . Not perfect, but better than the alternatives. I’m happy to walk away from the tiny number of sites that break in Safari. And that’s just on desktop where I could use something besides Safari if I wanted to. Whereas you’re literally saying you’re happy to walk away from over 35% of mobile users, while telling them to do something they can’t do without r…

Depends on the context of course but this generally rings true.

The amount of business we would be losing by ignoring mobile safari users is staggering. For whatever reason it's also the majority browser, I dont think its safe to assume that the users of your site using safari are equal to the percentage of the market share even.

Ignoring it is a very unusual stance unless your site/app is basically exclusively desktop.

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#100

Post by breakfastduck »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #59
zaptrem wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't Brave essentially a Chromium skin?

No. They provide a lot of extras and privacy protections. It's actually a pretty good browser, although I prefer Firefox with my favorite 3 or 4 plugins. I use Brave sometimes just to see where it's at and the occasional site that can't be used with Firefox (even with user agent swapping).

Yes, it is, regardless of what it adds on top.
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