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When “Foundation” Gets the Blockbuster Treatment, Asimov’s Vision Gets Lost

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Re: When “Foundation” Gets the Blockbuster Treatment, Asimov’s Vision Gets Lost

#91

"Asimov's Vision". The guy himself has said in interviews that it was entirely inspired by gas/fluid dynamics theory, where you could predict the motion of the whole but individual molecules would be random, and then "what if that could be applied to people". Everything else is just exploring and extrapolating. It's far from perfect but I feel that if it was a new IP work the reaction to it would be very different. A…

Having read both, I don’t think Dune is impossible to bring to the screen. I think it needs to be a TV show because as a film it will need to be super long (and will be exposition heavy and/or kinda boring.) But Foundation is like the Silmarillion. It’s supposed to be detailed over centuries/millennia and definitely is hard or impossible to get right on the screen.

> like the Silmarillion. It’s supposed to be detailed over centuries/millennia

Well, the last books of the original series of Dune take place over thousands of years when Leto II becomes the worm via symbiosis with the sandtrout. There is so much that happens in these millenia, sometimes told in flashback through the everlasting Duncan Idaho, or through the narrative of the religious texts.

The wars and the scheming and the plans and the plots... I mean just the sisterhood's rise and attempts to undermine leto could be its own series. Heck there are more subplots in Dune than fables in the Silmarillion. In fact, I think that the flaw with the Silmarillion is that everything becomes so much of the same after a while that I stopped caring about all of the one-off stories: it got repetitive and, frankly, boring.

Dune did suffer a Jon Galt moment with all of the exposition in God Emperor of Dune, but there was a lot of storytelling in those meetings between the Duncans and Leto.

Re: When “Foundation” Gets the Blockbuster Treatment, Asimov’s Vision Gets Lost

#92
I've sat through some bad film translations of books before, but Foundation is worse than any Stephen King treadmill. I think maybe Lawnmower Man was probably a bigger delta between book and movie than Foundation (a short story about a satyr who eats grass naked vs. virtual reality!)

Re: When “Foundation” Gets the Blockbuster Treatment, Asimov’s Vision Gets Lost

#93
post #87
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"presented as Chosen Ones" -- from the Goyer AMA, he said the show explores when believe think they are Chosen Ones, but that there are no Chosen Ones. In fact, the whole thing about Salvor believing she's a Chosen One is falling apart, as every one of her schemes (involving violence as well) are falling apart.. and it seems like she's where Gaal was supposed to be, therefore she's being mistaken as the leader that G…

But the whole point of Psychohistory (as it’s presented in the books) is that there aren’t any “Chosen Ones” at all. Sure Salvor isn’t one, but Gaal isn’t either; no one is. That’s the entire point. Under Psychohistory, it shouldn’t matter who the leader is; what matters is the forces on the population as a whole and that populations respond to those forces in predictable ways. Individual leaders come and go and real…

Just like in the books, one person close to Hari went to the Foundation to nudge it in the right direction at the start, I'm assuming that this is the role Gaal was to play, but didn't get a chance to do..

Either way, in the absolute this is correct that this isn't following the book's model, but, they aren't completely invalidating it. I hope

Re: When “Foundation” Gets the Blockbuster Treatment, Asimov’s Vision Gets Lost

#94
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll grant you, Salvor is definitely turning into a false Chosen One (also, this would be the first Seldon Crisis which they weren't even supposed to know of until after the first one, and she's already name dropped the term). She's got an idiot ball grafted onto her somewhere that she just can't shed. However, Seldon, to Raych, tells him that his decision with respect to Gaal will determine the fate of the galaxy. T…

I agree, it was a stark reversal from "The Plan does not account for the actions of any one individual" but was just revealed that it somehow hinged on the actions of...one individual. I think they fell into a trap with that and hope that they don't dig that hole any deeper. I'm a very casual viewer and even I picked up on that.

Perhaps the goal was to "fix the holes in the plan" rather than "an individual will save the day with heroic actions".

3 more episodes till we find out if they went that route or really butchered the novels' premise..

Re: When “Foundation” Gets the Blockbuster Treatment, Asimov’s Vision Gets Lost

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, I think it’s important to note that the show is produced by his daughter and that she wanted to take things in a different direction. Most of these changes were made with deep knowledge of the books and the authors vision. Just look at Dune. Brian Herbert's books are an abomination. They completely butcher the story and betray its core themes. Just like with this show. Someone's child being involved doesn't m…

On the other hand, A Scanner Darkly was a remarkably faithful adaptation of the book, and because of PKD's daughters involvement (they recognized the book's importance to him and it weighed heavily in the creation of the movie).

Christopher Tolkien also seems to be a pretty good steward of his father's estate.

Re: When “Foundation” Gets the Blockbuster Treatment, Asimov’s Vision Gets Lost

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's the way art I value would ever work. It sounds more like algorithmic factory production with no intention. "The algorithm thinks this will be like that other thing people like" is not a way to make novel and valuable new things, to me.

I think you're 100% correct that it would not be work of value. On the other hand, "The algorithm thinks this will be like that other thing people like" sounds like the exact model used for the majority of film and television today. Not least, this terrible rendition of Foundation.

The most valuable thing would be the hilarious errors. When Gandalf shows up in Star Wars or darth vader is replaced with a ring wraith kind of thing. I’m sure this fanfiction exists somewhere already though.

Re: When “Foundation” Gets the Blockbuster Treatment, Asimov’s Vision Gets Lost

#97
post #8

The army combat sequences are inconceivably stupid. Dozens of soldiers firing sci-fi machine guns at unprotected opponents at close range and everyone magically avoids injury. It makes one wonder if Apple applied some sort of violence limiting clause to the production with absurd results.

only stormtroopers are so precise. Personally these days when I hear they're making a book or book series I like into movies/tv I wait for the inevitable disappointment. I hear they're ruining Robert Jordan's books next, something I plan to skip entirely and just re-read the books instead.

I’m not sure Jordan’s books can be ruined, if anything I’d hope a TV series can correct a lot of his fatal flaws like truly awful writing of female characters. Sanderson tried to fix some of that after Jordan’s death, but when did he come in, book 12 or so?

Re: When “Foundation” Gets the Blockbuster Treatment, Asimov’s Vision Gets Lost

#98
post #21
post #7

I've read the books and watched the show as far as it's aired. I agree, but I almost think it's good that Asimov's vision is getting smoothed out a bit. After "second foundation" in the book series, the books go in a very different, unscientific "woo" direction. The end of the entire series is bizarre and controversial. I'm not all that convinced I want the original ending to be preserved - it wasn't that good anyway…

I only read "Foundation and Earth" before the show began (that's what was on hand where I was, I had little choice, as much as I hate starting in the middle of a series), and that book is VERY different from what I'm reading in the first book and what's in the TV series, and would indeed make for a pretty interesting show or at least a movie. It's literally about three people's journey across the cosmos to discover t…

That's like starting Game of Thrones at Season 7.

It's not just "starting in the middle of a series", it's starting almost at the end...after the best part of the story is well in the rear-view mirror.

IIRC, Foundation and Earth not only benefits from reading all of the Foundation books that came prior, but also all of Asimov's Robot books.

Re: When “Foundation” Gets the Blockbuster Treatment, Asimov’s Vision Gets Lost

#99

The show feels like the creators read the back of the book and nothing else. Adaptation is never a one-to-one translation but you need to keep the spirit of the show. Also the whole emperor lineage stuff feels like an attempt to add a Game of Thrones type plot to the show. I'm not far into the show, so perhaps they address this, but I'd love a more modern commentary on how the whole ideology of the Foundation is basi…

8 seasons is what I read :-)

Re: When “Foundation” Gets the Blockbuster Treatment, Asimov’s Vision Gets Lost

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did he do what he did for the Rama series and hand it off to a buddy to ghost write for him? I wish I'd know he had done that, because I wouldn't have wasted any time reading the garbage that was the sequels.

That was Clark, not Asimov. But on the topic of Rama, what a disappointing conclusion those sequels produced. I'm not sure which was worse, the Rama sequels or Crystal Skull . Either way, best to pretend they don't exist when recommending Rendezvous with Rama to people.

I'm not sure I've ever been more disappointed in a book than reading the Rama sequels.
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