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Fundamentals of Piano Practice

fundamentals-of-piano-practice.readthedocs.io

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Re: Fundamentals of Piano Practice

#91

Post by rossjudson »

MrGando wrote: post #68

Have to chime-in here as a piano player since age 7 (so been going for ~28 now), who about 2 years ago got very serious about Jazz. I have stumbled across this book many times, I have read it. It's the single most controversial book that I've read about piano technique and playing that I've found. The author, is not even a player himself (!!!). There's a great summary of reviews about the book here ( https://www.pian…

Oddly enough, the author himself says "get a piano teacher" when you're starting out. He also explicitly says that he's gathered together what he feels are the most effective practice techniques, culled from many books.

Your linked reviews spend a considerable amount of energy complaining about the author's lack of pedigree, of one sort or another...or paraphrasing things the author didn't say. Which isn't really paraphrasing, is it?

I think I've been playing piano since I was 7 too. After years away, I've been helping to teach my son. Most of the advice in the basic practice section is really, really good. Many of the techniques describe correspond quite well to what my son's (quite excellent) teacher asks him to do...and they work.

Re: Fundamentals of Piano Practice

#92

Post by blobbers »

alfiedotwtf wrote: post #79
cloogshicer wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main takeaways for me were: - Do not try to practice the whole piece at once. Split it into pieces - Start by listening to the piece. If possible get multiple performances/recordings (usually easy with YouTube) to get a feel for different interpretations. - Take the piece and number each measure from 1 to finish. Figure out where the repetitions are, which measures are the easiest, which the hardest (this will di…

> Do not try to practice the whole piece at once. Split it into pieces This has been my biggest ever piano hack. I now practice bar-by-bar and don't move on until I'm happy, and its taken my practice to a whole new level

How is this a piano hack ? This is the basics of how to learn any song.

What's the alternative approach? Repeatedly play the entire song making mistakes at the crux, but insisting on playing the easy parts and pushing through the difficult ones?

Re: Fundamentals of Piano Practice

#93

Post by rossjudson »

MrGando wrote: post #84
revolvingocelot wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't help but agree. I've been playing piano since childhood too, though in a desultory, non-Conservatory way. It's been great fun reading through this comment section and seeing Piano HN, but I'm really surprised that this is the first comment that acknowledges the skub-nature [0] of the book, and that the author doesn't actually play piano but in fact armchair-QBs it via observation and discussion with his two d…

There's a specific thing I always remember about this book, which is that the author recommends the "thumb over" technique for scales. I would never, ever suggest a beginner to approach scales like that. Thumb rotation is super important to absorb and master. Of course, when you go for fast scales you do a "thumb over" which is not really that, but instead of the thumb rotation, you reposition your whole hand using y…

Perhaps you should re-read. On thumb-over and thumb-under (TO, TU):

"Both methods are required to play the scale but each is needed under different circumstances; TO is needed for fast, difficult passages and TU is useful for slow, legato passages, or when notes need to be held while playing other notes."

"Beginners should be taught TU first because it is needed for slow passages and takes longer to learn. The TO method should be taught as soon as faster scales are needed, within the first two years of lessons."

Re: Fundamentals of Piano Practice

#95

Post by MrGando »

rossjudson wrote: post #91
MrGando wrote: post #68

Have to chime-in here as a piano player since age 7 (so been going for ~28 now), who about 2 years ago got very serious about Jazz. I have stumbled across this book many times, I have read it. It's the single most controversial book that I've read about piano technique and playing that I've found. The author, is not even a player himself (!!!). There's a great summary of reviews about the book here ( https://www.pian…

Oddly enough, the author himself says "get a piano teacher" when you're starting out. He also explicitly says that he's gathered together what he feels are the most effective practice techniques, culled from many books. Your linked reviews spend a considerable amount of energy complaining about the author's lack of pedigree, of one sort or another...or paraphrasing things the author didn't say. Which isn't really par…

The methods that work and are the kind of thing that any good teacher will tell you to do over a conversation in a coffee shop, meaning that you don't even need a piano to learn about them. Yes they do work, eg: learning a few bars at a time and separate hands.

The book totally falls apart when getting into the weeds. Piano is a corporal activity after all and while yes, there's definitely "frameworks" to make learning pieces more efficient, or practicing more efficient, the author gives very bad advice when he starts crossing the threshold towards what's technical and corporal... because he just doesn't know.

Re: Fundamentals of Piano Practice

#96

Post by rossjudson »

rossjudson wrote: post #5
cloogshicer wrote: post #4

It's sad that this book is written in such a self-validating tone (the very first sentence is "This is the best book ever written on how to practice at the piano!" for crying out loud), because the content is excellent. I read it a couple years ago and it completely changed how I approach practicing.

I agree; it is surprisingly good. And conceited...which is an acceptable tradeoff ;)

I'll also point out (to myself!) that the third edition is a considerably better read. It's available for free at the author's web site (http://www.pianopractice.org/).

Re: Fundamentals of Piano Practice

#97

Post by rossjudson »

amelius wrote: post #11
cloogshicer wrote: post #4

It's sad that this book is written in such a self-validating tone (the very first sentence is "This is the best book ever written on how to practice at the piano!" for crying out loud), because the content is excellent. I read it a couple years ago and it completely changed how I approach practicing.

> "This is the best book ever written on how to practice at the piano!" for crying out loud It fits with the current zeitgeist, where clickbait is everywhere, even in respected newspapers.

I am pretty sure the current zeitgeist is to do the minimum possible amount of observation/research before passing judgement on something.

Re: Fundamentals of Piano Practice

#98

Post by MrGando »

rossjudson wrote: post #93
MrGando wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a specific thing I always remember about this book, which is that the author recommends the "thumb over" technique for scales. I would never, ever suggest a beginner to approach scales like that. Thumb rotation is super important to absorb and master. Of course, when you go for fast scales you do a "thumb over" which is not really that, but instead of the thumb rotation, you reposition your whole hand using y…

Perhaps you should re-read. On thumb-over and thumb-under (TO, TU): "Both methods are required to play the scale but each is needed under different circumstances; TO is needed for fast, difficult passages and TU is useful for slow, legato passages, or when notes need to be held while playing other notes." "Beginners should be taught TU first because it is needed for slow passages and takes longer to learn. The TO met…

It's both the way the technique is described and the name given to it "thumb over" that are unclear and misleading. I know the technique, and in my years of practice (semi-pro) I've never seen it described anything like that. It doesn't even have a "name" per-se, because you learn to play the piano with your whole body, so it becomes a natural thing that you just have to do to get that speed. And by the way, you can still use it when playing slow, if you want to obtain a certain "tone" or "sound".

Re: Fundamentals of Piano Practice

#99

Post by is-is-odd »

zfier83 wrote: post #83

I’m an adult student. Started at 33 - just turned 38. Practicing 3-4 hours daily. Don’t get this book. Take music theory classes, learn harmony, and get an excellent teacher. Mine is from the Russian school and changed the way I approach the instrument. Also - you can become a good pianist if you start as an adult. You just won’t be attending Julliard as an instrumentalist. But who cares? Neither did Beethoven. My #1…

How do I go about finding a good teacher? Are google maps reviews trustworthy enough?

Re: Fundamentals of Piano Practice

#100

Post by packjaddison »

Waterluvian wrote: post #9

I’m going to try this out. I’m excited. I’m a piano beginner and my lingering anxieties are: 1. Am I building bad habits? 2. Am I learning in first gear without realizing it?

The most deadly bad habits are learning shortcuts that cause you to destroy your flexibility as a musician (example on piano: practicing a piece always at the same volume, so you would be unable to change the dynamics of the piece if it strikes you during performance), playing with tension (I have given myself multiple types of tendinitis and can attest to this), and repeating a mistake (more on this at the bottom).

As for learning in first gear, don't be afraid to make mistakes, as long as you are thinking about the mistakes and analyzing them, rather than blindly repeating them as "a thing that is hard so I will work in it later while I approach the parts of the piece that I enjoy." The way to improve is by hurling yourself at something too difficult for you, and then slowly improving your technique once you are able to analyze why a particular bit of music you're working on is beyond you.

To play a piece *perfectly, it is like wiping a glass window. You want to play the piece perfectly, every. single. time. So as you build the piece in your head, you cannot leave the equivalent of 'you missed a spot.' If your technique manages to be perfect, clear glass, the listener can 'see' through it to the music. It is dangerous that you already know the piece in your head, because your memory of the music can trump the mistake even as you are making it, because you hear 'how the piece should be' rather than how you're playing it. It's imperative to listen to recordings of your work as you polish it; only at the level of mastery does this become a superfluous tool. By listening to it back, you effectively can 'see' all the spots on the window that you are trying to wipe away.

Finally, there are only two types of playing the piano: practice, which involves deliberate and labored cleaning-up of your weaknesses and mistakes, and playing, which is the exhibition of your efforts to make something beautiful and perfect. The book does address this; most amateurs enjoy playing more than they practice, so they play a lot and fool themselves into thinking they are practicing (I am very guilty of this) and rarely practice, so their playing sounds like they need more practice :)

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