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Female African elephants are evolving without tusks due to ivory poaching

theswaddle.com

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Re: Female African elephants are evolving without tusks due to ivory poaching

#91
post #8

Honest question from someone who knows virtually nothing about chemistry or material science: is there a difference in quality between synthetic and natural ivory? If not, why is poaching even still a viable market?

When you have over a billion people in a culture valuing ivory, it doesn't take a large percentage of holdouts/morons/assholes/psychopaths to pose an existential threat to Elephants.

Multiplication is a bitch.

Re: Female African elephants are evolving without tusks due to ivory poaching

#92
Makes me wonder how human activity is evolving our very own genetic pool. Examples: competition vs cooperation, male vs female height, our immune system.

We have long had a culture where men prefer mates that are shorter than them, and women prefer mates that are taller. This results in constant pressure on the pool resulting in men being on average taller than women. Will this change over time as we outgrow this rather primitive preference? (Sadly, even many feminist women have clung to this preference.) Not all species "prefer" that the male is bigger or stronger than the female.

An obvious one is our reliance on modern medical technology, and drugs in particular. Are our bodies becoming less able to fend off disease?

The most important one for me is the balance between those genes that give us our selfishness and those that give us empathy and love. What impact does an ever more individualistic culture and an economic system that defines selfishness as a virtue have on our gene pool?

Re: Female African elephants are evolving without tusks due to ivory poaching

#93
post #8

Honest question from someone who knows virtually nothing about chemistry or material science: is there a difference in quality between synthetic and natural ivory? If not, why is poaching even still a viable market?

I imagine people view it similarly to leathers made from animal hides to synthetic materials. Synthetics may be better in some ways but people are in-part attracted by the character or feel that the imperfections of a natural material provide.

Leather from animal and leather from plastic is extremely different. It’s not just the imperfection, it doesn’t stretch the same way and the composition is fundamentally different

Synthetic ivory is ivory.

Re: Female African elephants are evolving without tusks due to ivory poaching

#94
post #52
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Superstition really seems to be one of the largest factor when it comes to animal hunting/consumption. It's ridiculous and a little bit ironic that something supposedly to bring good fortune will result in wide scale killing of animals, living earthlings.

> "It's ridiculous and a little bit ironic that something supposedly to bring good fortune will result in wide scale killing of animals, living earthlings." How is this ironic? Most cultures have prized animal products throughout recorded history, and many have practiced sacrifices, which is literally the killing of the being.

Not the parent, but the irony is that to bring good fortune, you bring incredible misfortune (extinction, even) upon other living things.

Re: Female African elephants are evolving without tusks due to ivory poaching

#95
post #87
post #12

In case anyone is wondering about the size of the effect, https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/wildlife-... has the numbers. Before the war, 2-4% of female elephants were tuskless. Now 32% of newly born ones are. So it's a significant change, but it's not like this property was coming out of nowhere. It started off about as common as humans having green eyes.

As sad as this is, how does this kind of evolution happen? I imagine the poaching process doesn't actually differentiate tusked and tuskless elephants, both types of elephants would fall into the trap and die? And then if it has tusks the poachers take them, if it doesn't have tusks the poachers just abandon the dead elephant? Or does their trap actually trap them by the tusk?

Yea I assume poachers shoot elephants, not trap them. So they only want to shoot ones with visible tusks.

Edit: I found an article[0] describing some poaching methods and apparently they do use traps! Including snares and a spiked board. But that it appears homemade shotguns and rifles are the most common method.

[0] http://www.open-earth.org/document/natureR_main.php?natureId...

Re: Female African elephants are evolving without tusks due to ivory poaching

#97
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the above commenter recognized that; that's exactly how these evolutions pretty much always work in nature, not unique to this case.

Right, but "natural selection" generally doesn't include human influence, but that's semantics. Would you also say that fruits that are selectively bred to be bigger and juicier are also under the influence of "natural selection"?

I wouldn't, because a fruit bred to be bigger and juicier is engineered by humans for their own benefit, while an elephant evolving to not have tusks is evolution going against human benefit.

I believe natural selection includes the influence of any species related to the species in question as predator or prey, and humans in this case are predators. We may historically be responsible for far more processes of natural selection than we're aware of!

You're right that it's exceedingly rare to see us so directly play a role in natural selection today (as opposed to indirectly through affecting the environment), which makes this very interesting.

Re: Female African elephants are evolving without tusks due to ivory poaching

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a world of difference between feeling that "you can always be doing more" and criticizing poaching on the internet an hour before sitting down to enjoy a steak dinner.

Are cows an endangered species?

What is your point? That it's acceptable to kill or otherwise maim creatures which are not endangered, like, say, humans?

Re: Female African elephants are evolving without tusks due to ivory poaching

#100
post #89
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As sad as this is, how does this kind of evolution happen? I imagine the poaching process doesn't actually differentiate tusked and tuskless elephants, both types of elephants would fall into the trap and die? And then if it has tusks the poachers take them, if it doesn't have tusks the poachers just abandon the dead elephant? Or does their trap actually trap them by the tusk?

They're hunted interactively by people with guns, not passively with traps.

Traps wouldn't work because the authorities would get to the elephant in a trap before the poacher returned, thus the poacher would lose their prey.

The poacher could always hang around near the trap, but if you're doing that you might as well just shoot the elephant, not trap it.

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