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Paintmakers are running out of the color blue

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Re: Paintmakers are running out of the color blue

#91

Post by inawarminister »

bluGill wrote: post #78
gremloni wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish it gets to that point. A country that doesn’t manufacture is a huge loser in the long run. I hope it comes back to America in a heavily automated, sustainable fashion.

There is plenty of manufacturing to go around. Buying from specialists is a better deal for everyone than trying to do a little of everything. The only exceptions is war machines (guns, ships...) - you need to have that in your country just in case. Though the more trade you do with others the more nobody wants war with you because they lose both the goods you make and the market for goods you buy from them.

That's the traditional liberal thinking, yes, but warmaking is not binary.

There's open war, cold war, hegemon bullying, and lots of other conflicts. Look at how much China tried to sabotage the Australian economy this last year (and vice versa of course) even though China NEEDED Australian coal and resources for their industry. Political considerations in the short run has priorities, even if it's economically costly.

Besides, with more capital it's going to lead into cheaper manufacturing with automatization in higher labor countries. Sometimes it's better to have redundant factories in many different parts of the world. Even if it's only for innovation.

Re: Paintmakers are running out of the color blue

#92

Post by ajsnigrutin »

labster wrote: post #90
verisimi wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you remember 3 weeks to 'flatten the curve'? And its not over yet but we're 18 months in! The virus, the treatment are transformational. They are the catalysts to technocratic governance.

You make it sound like a bad thing. The curve was flattened, millions of lives were saved, and life goes on mostly as before.

Except that you cannot buy a graphics card anymore.. or a car.. and food is expensive.. and fuel too.. and blue paint also.

Re: Paintmakers are running out of the color blue

#93

Post by ajsnigrutin »

coliveira wrote: post #74
gremloni wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish it gets to that point. A country that doesn’t manufacture is a huge loser in the long run. I hope it comes back to America in a heavily automated, sustainable fashion.

I get the point, but corporations care more about their own profits. They will continue manufacturing in Asia for the foreseeable future, since it is too costly to open manufacturing plants in the US. The government would need to do something momentous to change this, which I don't see happening.

As it seems, they are already unable to manufacture in asia.

Re: Paintmakers are running out of the color blue

#94

Post by dragonwriter »

bluGill wrote: post #78
gremloni wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish it gets to that point. A country that doesn’t manufacture is a huge loser in the long run. I hope it comes back to America in a heavily automated, sustainable fashion.

There is plenty of manufacturing to go around. Buying from specialists is a better deal for everyone than trying to do a little of everything. The only exceptions is war machines (guns, ships...) - you need to have that in your country just in case. Though the more trade you do with others the more nobody wants war with you because they lose both the goods you make and the market for goods you buy from them.

> The only exceptions is war machines (guns, ships...) - you need to have that in your country just in case.

If you can make guns and ships but not fuel for the ships and food for the people carrying the guns and manning the ships, how far does that get you?

If you can make guns and ships domestically, but rely on a foreign power that might become hostile for the raw material, how far does that get you?

If you take the “war materiel must be domestically producable for security” position, and think it through, you will find that it is by no means a narrow exception.

> Though the more trade you do with others the more nobody wants war with you because they lose both the goods you make and the market for goods you buy from them.

The idea that no one ever wants to go to war with a major trade partner is...hard to align with history.

Re: Paintmakers are running out of the color blue

#95

Post by anticodon »

coliveira wrote: post #70
azinman2 wrote: post #68

My hope is that supply chain issues will make clear the downsides to execs (not just the workers) and governments of externalizing all manufacturing abroad and out of reach. Look at the chaos caused by a pandemic, now imagine war or purposefully using supply chain as leverage.

This is all momentary situation caused by the pandemic. In one year, people will not even remember this. Companies will not spend billions of dollars unless they have no other option.

> This is all momentary situation caused by the pandemic

Very unlikely. 2020 was beginning of a super crisis caused by several reasons:

1) Depletion of fossil fuels which are used to produce consumer goods, e.g. to heat factories and provide electricity for the factory machines. Also fossil fuels are used to transport produced goods around half of the world. It was all possible due to abundant and cheap energy. But that energy source is no longer there.

2) Inability of capitalist economy to grow more. Capitalist economy must constantly expand to new markets but there're no more new markets as amount of markets on planet Earth is finite. Last huge market was created by destroying USSR and USSR industry: it postponed the super crisis by 30 years by giving capitalist system more space to expand to. But there's no longer any place for further expansion.

All will be going downhill from now on. Also, rising economic problems will prompt governments to start wars to exterminate "superfluous" population that cannot be fed in the new dark ages. There're other reasons for new war also. If you capture the country with still remaining fossil fuel resources and exterminate its population, you'll have more time to prepare for the inevitable.

Re: Paintmakers are running out of the color blue

#96

Post by beebmam »

azinman2 wrote: post #68

My hope is that supply chain issues will make clear the downsides to execs (not just the workers) and governments of externalizing all manufacturing abroad and out of reach. Look at the chaos caused by a pandemic, now imagine war or purposefully using supply chain as leverage.

War would lead to much worse than supply chain issues. Mass global death is what war between any powerful nation means now. Which is why it should be unthinkable, and why every nation that is serious about a future for humanity should take every action necessary to keep peace and to prevent crimes of aggression.

Re: Paintmakers are running out of the color blue

#97

Post by bellyfullofbac »

verisimi wrote: post #89
coliveira wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is all momentary situation caused by the pandemic. In one year, people will not even remember this. Companies will not spend billions of dollars unless they have no other option.

Do you remember 3 weeks to 'flatten the curve'? And its not over yet but we're 18 months in! The virus, the treatment are transformational. They are the catalysts to technocratic governance.

Re your 1st paragraph: Ahh, yeah, when things change beyond first estimations, let's use outdated statements made using old data to conclude "They were lying from the beginning, it's been planned all along!".

Meanwhile it's month 18 in USA because the antivax folks started with the premise of non-cooperation ("because I hate the other party") and worked from there to invent all sorts of excuses why their non-cooperation is justified, so the government, who needs to care for all, including the beligerent, have to keep policies to keep everyone somewhat protected, ie masks, distancing, and proof of vaccination checks. Compare that to Portugal with 98% vaccination rate and no more vaccine proof checks required.

Yeah yeah you can still get the virus if you're vaxed, but it'll then be just like a bad flu, actually fulfilling the mistaken belief that many deniers had in the beginning...

Re: Paintmakers are running out of the color blue

#98

Post by tjr225 »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #92
labster wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make it sound like a bad thing. The curve was flattened, millions of lives were saved, and life goes on mostly as before.

Except that you cannot buy a graphics card anymore.. or a car.. and food is expensive.. and fuel too.. and blue paint also.

I have a home, two cars, food, and blue paint. I’m not rich by any means, but my life has never been more abundant.

A coworker gave me a graphics card, too!

Re: Paintmakers are running out of the color blue

#99

Post by gremloni »

inawarminister wrote: post #91
bluGill wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is plenty of manufacturing to go around. Buying from specialists is a better deal for everyone than trying to do a little of everything. The only exceptions is war machines (guns, ships...) - you need to have that in your country just in case. Though the more trade you do with others the more nobody wants war with you because they lose both the goods you make and the market for goods you buy from them.

That's the traditional liberal thinking, yes, but warmaking is not binary. There's open war, cold war, hegemon bullying, and lots of other conflicts. Look at how much China tried to sabotage the Australian economy this last year (and vice versa of course) even though China NEEDED Australian coal and resources for their industry. Political considerations in the short run has priorities, even if it's economically costl…

It needs to be both. You build at home and trade with the global market for their goods. Germany seems to pull it off pretty well.

You may not sell as many with more expensive local manufacturing prices but the goods will be of a much higher quality and so more expensive.

Re: Paintmakers are running out of the color blue

#100

Post by jtbayly »

bellyfullofbac wrote: post #97
verisimi wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you remember 3 weeks to 'flatten the curve'? And its not over yet but we're 18 months in! The virus, the treatment are transformational. They are the catalysts to technocratic governance.

Re your 1st paragraph: Ahh, yeah, when things change beyond first estimations, let's use outdated statements made using old data to conclude "They were lying from the beginning, it's been planned all along!". Meanwhile it's month 18 in USA because the antivax folks started with the premise of non-cooperation ("because I hate the other party") and worked from there to invent all sorts of excuses why their non-cooperat…

If 100% of the population were fully vaccinated tomorrow, would that end the pandemic?
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