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SUVs are offsetting EV car gains

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Re: SUVs are offsetting EV car gains

#91

Post by tashbarg »

londons_explore wrote: post #85
tashbarg wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seriously doubt those numbers (-50% fuel, energy harvesting by driving behind a truck) AND you are giving incentive to try dangerous driving. Please either back those numbers up with evidence or remove them for the sake of road safety.

On a flat (private) road, big container-hauling truck, 65mph, stick shift car following 20 feet behind... Put the car in neutral and you can follow for miles. You need to tap the brakes occasionally to stop yourself getting too close to the truck. That tells me no engine power is being used. Obviously it's unsafe to do on the public road for a bunch of reasons, but it really shows how good automated vehicle convoys c…

Here's mythbusters doing it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lttgT1XZVvE

They estimate the savings at insane 20 feet at 20 something. Far from your claimed 100%.

Could it be, that your road is not as flat as you think? That would also explain the necessary braking to not run into the truck, wouldn't it?

But I couldn't agree more: let the machines do that perfectly and safe. Let's reap those sweet 25-50% increase in fuel efficiency.

Re: SUVs are offsetting EV car gains

#92

Post by henryackerman »

taurath wrote: post #83
morsch wrote: post #2

Alternatively, the 536 hp, 5018 lbs (2276 kg) BMW i4 ("1,000 lbs (454 kg) more than most other 3 and 4 Series BMWs", not known as lightweight cars in the first place) apparently "is the electric BMW sedan you’ve been waiting for". New ways of wasting energy in maximum comfort, all around. https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/10/the-2023-bmw-i4-is-the-...

Quite OT, but the design language of BMW seems lost. I don’t know why the grill needs to be the most distinguishing feature on an electric car.

The grille is one of the most characteristic design feature of a BMW. Don't forget that a BMW is a luxury product. Why buy a BMW if it does not look like one?

Re: SUVs are offsetting EV car gains

#93

Post by mbirth »

This was very obvious when car manufacturers first started producing EVs in Germany. There's a law here that limits the "fleet CO2 output", i.e. the typical CO2 output of every car on offer is measured and the mean value is calculated and has to be lower than what's specified in the law.

During the dawn of EVs in Germany, manufacturers built some EVs but barely advertised them and also their prices were way above of their fully specced petrol versions. (Meanwhile bragging in documentaries about how efficiently and cheap they were able to produce said EVs.) You definitely got the feeling they didn't want to sell them. OTOH they usually published a new SUV at the same time - because they sold like hot cakes.

Re: SUVs are offsetting EV car gains

#94

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

tashbarg wrote: post #78
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus the break-even for an EV vs ICE car is around the 100,000k mark, if I recall correctly, due to the energy required to build the battery in the EV. So: it’s complicated. It’d take me over ten years to do 100,000 kilometres, so probably the best car is the one I already have.

This [1] claims 21,725km for the US and only 13,518km for Norways energy mix. The 100,000km number is quite old and was corrected down and down again several times due to more efficient battery production and changing energy mix. [1] https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/when-d...

Excellent, thanks for the update :)

Re: SUVs are offsetting EV car gains

#95

Post by Grieving »

lmm wrote: post #60
Seanambers wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it a illusion that poor people bike so much? I mean one of the most efficient indicators of real estate price is travel time to and from a city center.

Poor people can't afford cars. Cramming whole families into cheap apartments of questionable legality is not a great way to live, but you do what you have to.

This sounds highly location-dependent. I'm in rural America, and the poor here, with extremely rare exceptions, own cars. There are people living in dilapidated shacks with SUVs in the driveway.

Re: SUVs are offsetting EV car gains

#96

Post by taurath »

henryackerman wrote: post #92
taurath wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite OT, but the design language of BMW seems lost. I don’t know why the grill needs to be the most distinguishing feature on an electric car.

The grille is one of the most characteristic design feature of a BMW. Don't forget that a BMW is a luxury product. Why buy a BMW if it does not look like one?

The grille has tripled in size - it’s like a WRX with a 5 foot tall spoiler on the back. It doesn’t look like a luxury product to me.

Re: SUVs are offsetting EV car gains

#97

Post by websap »

coolgoose wrote: post #40
tdrdt wrote: post #11

Meanwhile the German city Tübingen is raising the parking fee for SUVs by 6 times and other cities are thinking about this as well. They are too big for those cities. https://www.rtl.de/cms/tuebingen-parkgebuehren-fuer-suv-fahr...

I am confused on why some people don't get that SUV's are a preference because they do bring some benefits (namely more space, a bit higher guard (especially useful on shitty roads), and that the alternative aka MCV's / monovolume are just dead and were never a lot more drag efficient. Does it suck to drive a SUV in a city ? Mostly yes, but is it better to tax people based on the car size ? Won't this just make some…

I don't know man SUVs might be more practical. But, I find them to look boring and for all old people. Sedans and hatchbacks definitely have a more fun look to them.

Re: SUVs are offsetting EV car gains

#98

Post by londons_explore »

tashbarg wrote: post #91
londons_explore wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a flat (private) road, big container-hauling truck, 65mph, stick shift car following 20 feet behind... Put the car in neutral and you can follow for miles. You need to tap the brakes occasionally to stop yourself getting too close to the truck. That tells me no engine power is being used. Obviously it's unsafe to do on the public road for a bunch of reasons, but it really shows how good automated vehicle convoys c…

Here's mythbusters doing it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lttgT1XZVvE They estimate the savings at insane 20 feet at 20 something. Far from your claimed 100%. Could it be, that your road is not as flat as you think? That would also explain the necessary braking to not run into the truck, wouldn't it? But I couldn't agree more: let the machines do that perfectly and safe. Let's reap those sweet 25-50% increase in f…

The truck they're following there doesn't go near the ground... I suspect you really need to not have any route under the truck for the airflow for it to really work well.

Re: SUVs are offsetting EV car gains

#99

Post by yencabulator »

Grieving wrote: post #95
lmm wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poor people can't afford cars. Cramming whole families into cheap apartments of questionable legality is not a great way to live, but you do what you have to.

This sounds highly location-dependent. I'm in rural America, and the poor here, with extremely rare exceptions, own cars. There are people living in dilapidated shacks with SUVs in the driveway.

Yes, that is very much an Americanism: house falling apart, shiny pretty car in front.
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