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Bitcoin is a Ponzi

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Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#91

Post by mdoms »

dhsysusbsjsi wrote: post #9

I think this is simplistic. It’s viewing Bitcoin through a lens of a traditional Ponzi scheme assuming people that trade their fiat currency for Bitcoin are investing, with a view to one day take profits back into dollars. What if people are seeing discussion of minting a trillion dollar coin, trillions in QE, 25% of all dollars created in the last 12 months…and concluding that fiat currency is in an endgame and they…

0%* of Bitcoin holders are in it for the currency aspects.

* Within margin of error

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#92

Post by toomuchtodo »

iplaman wrote: post #68

Bitcoin is now being considered as official currency in Brazil where the author is. It will be interesting to see how this develops https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/cryptocurrency/...

Brazil also has an instant payments platform that recently went live (Pix) that sees more volume than Zelle in the US with ~110 million users. It’s already ubiquitous in a year of operation.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#93

Post by bugzz »

> By that definition, gold too is a ponzi. No, gold clearly fails to satisfy that definition on two counts.

> First, few if any gold investors have expectations of profits. They generally invest in gold as a hedge -- a "store of value" -- that they hope will retain its value in case other assets go sour.

I believe Bitcoin has potential to become the "new" gold. It's better in many ways. Does that mean I can only buy Bitcoin if I want to use it as a hedge? No! I can buy it with the expectation of profit because I expect it to be commonly used as a hedge in the future, at which time it will have a much higher price and I'll have made money.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#94

Post by muglug »

dvt wrote: post #61

People use BTC/ETH/etc. in exchange for goods . I mean, I'm not a fan of cryptocurrency, but calling it a Ponzi scheme is just wrong. There are plenty of shitcoins out there that are purely pump and dumps, but it seems like BTC is here to stay.

A very very minute percentage of bitcoin is used in transactions. The vast bulk of it is seen by its users as an investment. And historically there have been Ponzi schemes that allowed people to cash out before the scheme fell apart — but it was always a small minority cashing out.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#95

Post by [deleted] »

lpa22 wrote: post #11

> They generally invest in gold as a hedge -- a "store of value" -- that they hope will retain its value in case other assets go sour. I strongly believe bitcoin will be the new gold one day, if it doesn't pan out as a currency. It sounds insane, but I actually believe the Winklevoss twins when they say Elon and SpaceX will be able to mine gold on asteroids within the next 20 years, which would crash the price of gol…

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#96

Post by gingerbread-man »

sockfish wrote: post #3

"By that definition the USD is a ponzi. No, national currencies too fail to fit the definition, because people do not "invest" in them with the expectation of gain" <-- The 6.6trillion/day forex market begs to differ.

Gross daily trading volumes are a poor gauge of how much capital investors have deployed in a particular market, seeking returns. A single international transaction may induce several forex trades, such as when the sale price of goods is denominated in USD or some other non-local currency. Combine that with the complex, usually leveraged hedging strategies employed by banks and multinational firms, and it’s easy to see whence such a massive figure comes.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#97

Post by TigeriusKirk »

imsd wrote: post #62
seibelj wrote: post #16

Judging by the attitude on HN, cryptocurrency should be worth $0 and written off years ago. Instead it's bigger than ever and the most important people on earth are focusing on it. Somehow it's simultaneously an incredible, useless scam but is so powerful that we must ban it at all costs! HN doesn't know everything, do your own research, use your own logic.

I love HN but have watched for years as much in the community have completely missed the boat on crypto and blockchain. It's a strange disconnect...

And no one is going to change their mind at this point. People have far too much ego invested in their opinions of crypto now.

I'm in favor of a blanket ban on crypto discussion here. It's all noise at this point.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#98

Post by bb88 »

imsd wrote: post #43
Osmose wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's not about cashing out then why is the primary hype mechanism talking about the dollar-equivalent value of anything crypto related? Why does it matter if an NFT was sold for $300k worth of ether?

More and more, I'm hearing only the ETH value rather than dollar denomination. Personally, when I bid (or receive bids) on any of my NFTs, I'm only considering the ETH price. It's a new shift, but I think quite profound. Edit: If you're referring to mainstream media, the dollar value is all that most would be able to put into context. For those deep in the space, we're thinking about dollar values less and less. My p…

But ETH is still tied to the dollar and that's where it gets its value, is in the comparison to the dollar. I don't accept ETH for a used car I'm going to sell. I accept dollars, though.

Re: Bitcoin is a Ponzi

#100

Post by DSingularity »

bb88 wrote: post #88
sailingparrot wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What if people are seeing [...] What if my grandmother had wheels? More seriously, how many people do you know are seeing what you are talking about? Everyone I know that invested in crypto did so hoping to trade it back later on for more fiat than they paid. Sure, maybe it's a biased sample, but it's a sizeable sample and I do not know even a single person that traded their fiat for crypto definitly.

English tends to describe things as they are. To me the key principle is the constant use of the words "invest", "investing", or "investment" when it comes to crypto assets. I don't invest in a credit card for spending. I use a credit card, though.

Thank you. I love the idea of cryptocurrency for its utility… but it seems to me that this idea that crypto is an asset will eventually spectacularly collapse.
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