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TSA’s “See cash, seize cash” policy

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Re: TSA’s “See cash, seize cash” policy

#91

Post by kasey_junk »

dogleash wrote: post #34
lisper wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because there is a widespread perception that if someone is engaging in a large scale cash transaction then there must be something shady going on even if there is no direct evidence of it (because legitimate business is transacted using checks or wire transfers). This is especially true if the person carrying the cash has dark skin. (Having a criminal record didn't help either in this case.)

>a widespread perception that if someone is engaging in a large scale cash transaction then there must be something shady going on People who've never carried a sum of cash on their person are often terrified of the prospect and assume everyone is as frighted of as they are. I used to walk cash from a retail store safe to the bank as part of the morning routine. I've had so many lectures about why I should have never…

One of my tasks at my very first job as a 15 year old bag boy was to walk with the manager across the street to the night deposit box to drop off cash.

The real risk in ghat endeavor was the manager convincing me to split the cash and run off with it…

Re: TSA’s “See cash, seize cash” policy

#92

Post by samtho »

coolspot wrote: post #83

I traveled with like $20k cash arriving from aboard via LAX. Declared in paper that I have those money and verbally when asked upon entry, then had to go with an officer to fill out some additional form, that’s it.

The issue with the OP’s case is that this guy was flying domestically and traveling with any amount of cash is not a crime nor is required to be reported. Because this procedure of declaring cash is with Customs and Boarding Protection, it only ever applies when flying in from abroad.

Re: TSA’s “See cash, seize cash” policy

#93

Post by romwell »

gamblor956 wrote: post #40
aazaa wrote: post #27

> Lyon arrived @RDUAirport & gave his bag to @TSA to be scanned. He says he absolutely knew TSA would see the cash, but said he also knew there is no law limiting the amount of cash one can fly with in the U.S. Here's the real problem. Civil asset forfeiture is an extralegal action. It's outside the legal system, which is why it's nearly impossible to get your money back. It's why the legality of what Lyon was doing…

Civil asset forfeiture is an extralegal action. This is categorically wrong . CAF is outside of the criminal legal system, but is very much part of the civil legal system, and the governments loses CAF cases more often than they win them in CAF cases preceding or not involving related criminal cases. (But conversely, the governments almost always win CAF cases that occur after succesful criminal cases involving drugs…

>CAF cases make the news when the victim doesn't get their money back in a timely fashion, for the same reason that fires and earthquakes do: because that's not the normal state of things.

Yeah, and we have an awful lot of news like that.

>The OP asserted that CAF was extralegal, and it absolutely is not.

In practice, there have been enough cases to justify saying that.

We live in a country where the authorities can confiscate cash when they see it without reason and consequence.

That, to my eyes, is extralegal.

Whether the law gives them this de-facto power is beside the point; the justice system clearly does.

Re: TSA’s “See cash, seize cash” policy

#94

Post by dredmorbius »

loloquwowndueo wrote: post #30
kragen wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience is the opposite. I can open up my wallet and take out a $1000 bill* in about three seconds; if change is due, that typically takes about another ten seconds. Paying with a credit card takes about a minute, four to ten times less convenient, except a significant percentage of the time the time " no hay sistema " and it just doesn't work, and sooner or later your credit card number gets sold to the Russia…

Gee man, it sounds like you live in quite the hell hole. Move to a decent country, you’ll be happier.

You also support open borders and universal emigration, right?

How does this approach scale?

Re: TSA’s “See cash, seize cash” policy

#95

Post by ch4s3 »

gamblor956 wrote: post #87
aazaa wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> CAF cases make the news when the victim doesn't get their money back in a timely fashion, for the same reason that fires and earthquakes do: because that's not the normal state of things. Got a source for that?

That's its normal for the victims to get their money back without much of a hassle? No, because people showing the cops they have a legitimate reason to have the money and getting it back isn't news, it's just how the process normally works. (And note, this is my professional experience from when I was a public defender, which included helping clients recover assets seized pursuant to CAF claims.) It's like how there…

Even if you could expect to get your money back most of the time, it's still a morally repugnant thing for armed agents of the government to do. As a society we should not tolerate it at all.

Re: TSA’s “See cash, seize cash” policy

#96

Post by chiefofgxbxl »

godelski wrote: post #54
bserge wrote: post #7

Can't get paid more than 1500 in cash in France. 2000 Pounds is "a lot of money" to exchange in the UK. The limits are suspiciously higher if you're well dressed and stepping out of an expensive car or moving millions. Tells you how pathetically poor the poor really are.

There's a proposal for a new fed program that will track anything over $600 in the US now[0]. It is pretty much aimed at gig workers. Previously the IRS just didn't care about anyone below the poverty line. I'm not sure I'm even fine with the spirit of what is happening here, since these people would be getting that money back in refunds anyways. Also, I think a problem is that it is placing the burden on people who…

I remember seeing increased IRS enforcement as one of the payment methods for the recent U.S. infrastructure bill, and thinking about how that really meant taxing the poor:

"One of the starkest differences is who will pay for it all. While Biden pledged to increase corporate income taxes to fund infrastructure, Republicans drew a line in the sand. The new deal pulls together a patchwork of increased IRS enforcement, selling off petroleum reserves, [...]" [0]

[0] https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2021-06-24/factbox-b...

Re: TSA’s “See cash, seize cash” policy

#97

Post by Y_Y »

bserge wrote: post #7

Can't get paid more than 1500 in cash in France. 2000 Pounds is "a lot of money" to exchange in the UK. The limits are suspiciously higher if you're well dressed and stepping out of an expensive car or moving millions. Tells you how pathetically poor the poor really are.

Really? Retail businesses move much larger amounts of cash every day, private citizens (rich and poor alike) rarely see more than a couple of hundred at a time. At least this is my experience.

Re: TSA’s “See cash, seize cash” policy

#98

Post by joncrane »

andrewmg wrote: post #25

Here's more information on the Institute for Justice class action (mentioned in the Twitter thread) that's challenging TSA airport forfeitures: https://ij.org/case/dea-tsa-forfeitures/ IJ is the leader on this issue, and if you oppose civil-forfeiture abuse, you might consider supporting IJ's work. (Disclosure: the IJ attorney pictured in the thread is a friend whom I admire greatly.)

It blows my mind that citizens have to pay their own money to support organizations like IJ, ACLU, Amnesty International, etc.

Re: TSA’s “See cash, seize cash” policy

#99

Post by hapless »

gamblor956 wrote: post #40
aazaa wrote: post #27

> Lyon arrived @RDUAirport & gave his bag to @TSA to be scanned. He says he absolutely knew TSA would see the cash, but said he also knew there is no law limiting the amount of cash one can fly with in the U.S. Here's the real problem. Civil asset forfeiture is an extralegal action. It's outside the legal system, which is why it's nearly impossible to get your money back. It's why the legality of what Lyon was doing…

Civil asset forfeiture is an extralegal action. This is categorically wrong . CAF is outside of the criminal legal system, but is very much part of the civil legal system, and the governments loses CAF cases more often than they win them in CAF cases preceding or not involving related criminal cases. (But conversely, the governments almost always win CAF cases that occur after succesful criminal cases involving drugs…

In the incident described in the local news story, an officer of the law demanded the money extra-legally, and only resorted to civil asset forfeiture after the victim refused to play along.

I think it's important to note that it began with an extra-legal demand, no matter the legal substance of the procedure that followed.

Civil asset forfeiture proceeds in the USA are already a larger amount than substantially all losses to property crimes combined, and we have no way of knowing how much more was lost to extra-legal demands that didn't pass through C.A.F. proceedings.

-------------

We've made law enforcement into a thousand squabbling gangs of thieves, and it's going to take a lot of time and effort to un-make that monster.

Re: TSA’s “See cash, seize cash” policy

#100

Post by phkahler »

gamblor956 wrote: post #40
aazaa wrote: post #27

> Lyon arrived @RDUAirport & gave his bag to @TSA to be scanned. He says he absolutely knew TSA would see the cash, but said he also knew there is no law limiting the amount of cash one can fly with in the U.S. Here's the real problem. Civil asset forfeiture is an extralegal action. It's outside the legal system, which is why it's nearly impossible to get your money back. It's why the legality of what Lyon was doing…

Civil asset forfeiture is an extralegal action. This is categorically wrong . CAF is outside of the criminal legal system, but is very much part of the civil legal system, and the governments loses CAF cases more often than they win them in CAF cases preceding or not involving related criminal cases. (But conversely, the governments almost always win CAF cases that occur after succesful criminal cases involving drugs…

>> The OP asserted that CAF was extralegal, and it absolutely is not.

How does it jive with the constitution? Particularly the 4th amendment, but others as well.

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