Assyrian soldier diving with an inflatable goatskin bag (ca. 865

Re: Assyrian soldier diving with an inflatable goatskin bag (ca. 865–860 BC)

#91

Post by freeflight » Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 11:10 AM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #89

freeflight wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One could interpret this as showing underwater swimming to avoid archers. Could also be the scene of a siege, the swimmers trying to traverse a river with heavy currents, indicated by the swirls in the water. In that scenario the archers would give them covering fire from the defending soldiers in the castle structure. This could also explain the archers wearing different helmets: They belong to different sides in…

I thought the archers were friendly at first. Then noticed one is pointing their bow down towards the swimmers. The swimmer without a goatskin looked to me to have an arrow (or two?) in them that would have come from that direction. Detail was hard for me to make out though. (I'm purposefully arguing only pro diving, in case that's not clear.)

> I thought the archers were friendly at first. Then noticed one is pointing their bow down towards the swimmers.

Yeah I noticed that detail too, might be a simple oversight on the artists part.

Or the scene depicts the men fleeing, using the strong current of the river and flotation devices, while being attacked from both sides.

Re: Assyrian soldier diving with an inflatable goatskin bag (ca. 865–860 BC)

#92

Post by Retric » Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 1:04 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #79

Retric wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s true, but irrelevant in this case as in the short term people are O2 limited not CO2 limited which is why the world record for holding ones breath goes up by breathing pure oxygen. It’s also one of the reasons I was asking for examples as I assumed you where making assumptions that didn’t apply.

For the vast majority of people that's just wrong. The urge to breathe is driven primarily by increasing blood CO2 levels (hypercapnia). You can learn to tolerate higher levels but to reach the point where pre-breathing pure O2 makes a difference takes extensive dedicated apnea training. Anyone can extend breath hold times at least a little by hyperventilating first to drive down CO2 levels, thus surpressing the urge…

> For the vast majority of people that’s just wrong.

>That can be dangerous underwater as it becomes easier to go hypoxic before the urge to breathe gets overwhelming.

Again true on both counts but irrelevant, there is no reason to suppose people in 800BC where average divers. Pearl diving goes back to ~2000BC so demonstrating a very long tradition of people pushing these limits and it’s exactly the people pushing such limits that might try bringing an air supply underwater.

Sure this depiction is almost guaranteed to be a floatation device, but you build something like that and spend your life around water and people are going to try stuff.

Re: Assyrian soldier diving with an inflatable goatskin bag (ca. 865–860 BC)

#93

Post by fourtrees » Wed, Sep 22, 2021, 6:13 AM UTC

handrous wrote: post #42

tragomaskhalos wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A related oddity - according to "Navies of the Napoleonic Era", Turkish ships had higher decks than was normal for other navies allegedly to allow for elaborate headgear, even though this actually compromised the stability of the ships.

Is that a hold-over from Byzantium/Eastern-Roman-Empire, kept after the Turkish conquest? They were all about elaborate hierarchies of ranks and titles, often expressed through big hats or helmets.

Neat idea, but I'd bet it was a completely native decision, maybe forced on some poor naval architect by a grandee who didn't understand the implications of the order. Then again, there's no proof one way or another.

Re: Assyrian soldier diving with an inflatable goatskin bag (ca. 865–860 BC)

#94

Post by fourtrees » Wed, Sep 22, 2021, 6:22 AM UTC

abeppu wrote: post #18

I think it's interesting that he's shown swimming mostly nude but wearing a protruding hat which seems pretty impractical. Is the hat symbolic?

If it isn't symbolic, I'd guess the swimmer had just decided to abandon all but the most important piece of his kit. The helmet would also afford him a bit of safety if he stuck his head above water to see what's going on and where he is. Could also be a cuir-bouilli helmet/hat which I assume wouldn't restrict his swimming to the extent of bronze or iron.