Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#91

Post by bedhead » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 1:59 PM UTC

sixQuarks wrote: post #80

bedhead wrote: post #60

Jonathan Haidt has done a ton of research on this and it's terrifying. His thesis seems to make a lot of sense: boys bully each other physically while girls bully each other reputationally. This is likely why mental health issues for boys and girls have diverged wildly since about 2014, because as lives moved online, this was a recipe for disaster for girls since social media is so perfect for this kind of bullying,…

I think you’re dismissing the fact that a lot of young boys also feel terrible about themselves when they go on Instagram. Besides the whole chiseled body thing, there’s a lot of influencers who flaunt money and wealth also.

Oh I certainly didn't mean to be dismissive of the negative effects on boys, it's just been far worse for girls and there's lots of data showing it (eg hospital admissions for self-harm)

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#92

Post by raman162 » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:01 PM UTC

joelbluminator wrote: post #14

Is it Facebook / Instagram's fault or us as a culture? As a culture we adore beauty, wealth, power...Facebook seems to be just a platform where our natural desires can have a play. Facebook hasn't created this impossible beauty ideal, it was created long long ago by Hollywood and the fashion industry. Facebook just makes it super easy for people to become obsessed with something by "connecting" with it. It used to be…

I agree that we need to hold ourselves responsible for our actions. If it's not going to be facebook capitalizing on our behavior, it will be some other company. From the article it seems that most teens are aware that they have an unhealthy relationship with instagram. Tackling this issue in a sustainable way is something I believe most teens are capable of this with the right guidance.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#93

Post by im3w1l » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:01 PM UTC

jhrmnn wrote: post #16

joelbluminator wrote: post #14

Is it Facebook / Instagram's fault or us as a culture? As a culture we adore beauty, wealth, power...Facebook seems to be just a platform where our natural desires can have a play. Facebook hasn't created this impossible beauty ideal, it was created long long ago by Hollywood and the fashion industry. Facebook just makes it super easy for people to become obsessed with something by "connecting" with it. It used to be…

Facebook and social platforms in general are just very efficient in amplifying all these toxic elements of our culture

Yes I think the "social platforms in general" part is key. It's hard to imagine what a social platform would look like that wasn't harmful in this way. Maybe chat apps I suppose, since 1-on-1 interaction is less of a popularity contest.

But anyway, I think the reason that facebook is aware of the problem but doing nothing is not that they are cynically exploiting people, and it's rather that they don't know how to solve it.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#94

Post by aspaviento » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:02 PM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #17

joelbluminator wrote: post #14

Is it Facebook / Instagram's fault or us as a culture? As a culture we adore beauty, wealth, power...Facebook seems to be just a platform where our natural desires can have a play. Facebook hasn't created this impossible beauty ideal, it was created long long ago by Hollywood and the fashion industry. Facebook just makes it super easy for people to become obsessed with something by "connecting" with it. It used to be…

It's their fault. An individual girl in 1995 who was concerned with her looks had at most a couple dozen people in her life to judge her. In 2021 it's hundreds of millions, and a large portion are more than happy to spout things they would NEVER say in real life. Does society value beauty? Sure. Do models set "unrealistic expectations"? Sure. Are some high school girls assholes to other girls? Absolutely. But once up…

> An individual girl in 1995 who was concerned with her looks had at most a couple dozen people in her life to judge her

An individual girl in 1995 had enough shows on TV and enough magazines to tell her she is not looking good.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#95

Post by Kiro » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:03 PM UTC

1billionstories wrote: post #18

how do employees of Facebook reading this justify their employment?

We used to have the CTO of Facebook post on HN but that time is long gone due to employee shaming like this. Now we just have comment threads filled with hatred instead.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#96

Post by dgdfg » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:04 PM UTC

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#97

Post by raman162 » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:05 PM UTC

GeekyBear wrote: post #58

joelbluminator wrote: post #14

Is it Facebook / Instagram's fault or us as a culture? As a culture we adore beauty, wealth, power...Facebook seems to be just a platform where our natural desires can have a play. Facebook hasn't created this impossible beauty ideal, it was created long long ago by Hollywood and the fashion industry. Facebook just makes it super easy for people to become obsessed with something by "connecting" with it. It used to be…

Extremist conduct keeps people engaged longer, so they see more ads. Facebook/YouTube/Twitter all exploit the dark side of human nature. They've been doing it for so many years, that it's difficult to imagine that it's unintentional. >in Google’s effort to keep people on its video platform as long as possible, “its algorithm seems to have concluded that people are drawn to content that is more extreme than what they…

These companies are always going to want to hold our attention but it's us at the end of the day who decide to give them our attention. I think as a society we need to prove that we are smarter than these companies and are capable of discipline and self-control.

In corporate america, it's hard for me to see any private owned corporation doing what's in best interest for the public versus their own pockets.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#98

Post by earthscienceman » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:06 PM UTC

I'll make a comment that tries to be different than the range of criticism here already. Instagram is toxic for everyone.

For reasons too personal to put here, I've been pretty depressed and dysfunctional lately and I've unintentionally discovered the experience of doomscrolling. The output of the instagram algorithm is absolutely terrifying. It has the perfect metrics (swipe time, profile browsing, etc etc) to prey on every impulse inside of you and to send you the perfect cocktail of content to feed those impulses. Fear, doubts, wants, etc. etc. are all inputs to the algorithm and the output is content that makes you feel those things more.

I have to wonder if this type of media is similar to magazines on steroids, or other pulp media of the bygone era. No one here makes this comparison so maybe I'm off base but I do often if I'm scrolling through the worst possible version of a home produced checkout-aisle magazine.

EDIT:

I appreciate the comments that make this personal and are trying to help, but my instagram problem will be fixed when I manage to fix my real life problems... a much bigger task. My point is to highlight that the algorithm can suck anyone in, not just teen girls. They just happen to be the most vulnerable.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#99

Post by Factorium » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:06 PM UTC

rg111 wrote: post #66

I don't blame Facebook (or Twitter, or any particular company) for this. We can only blame scale . Some things are much more scalable than others, and "beauty" scales. And the "occurrence of beauty" does, too. Before the advent of scale on almost every aspect of our lives, a local musician or theatre group found easy income. Now, since after the invention of gramophones, more people can listen to less and less musici…

We need Government regulation. Specifically, to not display the # of 'likes', friends, followers and other similar metrics publicly on each page.

Remove this metric and you remove the major gamification/psychological element.

Re: Facebook knows Instagram is toxic for teen girls, company documents show

#100

Post by nemo44x » Tue, Sep 14, 2021, 2:07 PM UTC

Most everyone socialized fine for thousands of years. Some people who didn't socialize well, essentially nerds, invented social media and for some reason everyone decided to begin socializing this way - the way nerds imagined it would be best. It's no wonder everyone is a neurotic, anxious mess.