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How Many People Can Someone Lead?

patkua.com

91–97 of 97 posts

Re: How Many People Can Someone Lead?

#91
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gee, I'll bet you were a peach to teach. Let's just fire all the teachers and see if the next batch of applicants do any better. I'm a software engineer and I'll happily admit that I'm grossly overpaid for the contribution to society I provide. I'm curious what you think teachers should be paid for trying to educate our future.

There's a market that works on software engineers. Ability, work ethic, and quality of output plays a significant part in who gets hired and fired. There are no mechanisms by which bad teachers are removed, as long as they check the boxes for attendance, not being visibly intoxicated, etc. The profession is riddled with incompetents and bad actors. Actual good teachers are rare. Simply being able to fire the bad ones…

Teachers can be fired for poor performance. It is just rare, because proving poor performance is dubious in education. Good teachers want bad teachers out. There just isn’t a motivating force for the supervisor to do it unless the teacher is truly a harm to the kids.

Everything going on in education over the past 20 years has been to add that overarching, cross school performance metric to measure teachers against each other. The problem is:

1. How do you measure performance? Tests. What will any educator or student tell you? Ends up test performance doesn’t really correlate much to the quality of the teacher. What it does correlate well to is income of the student’s parents. You teach in a school that serves low-income families? You’re fired. Also tests don’t factor that some students are special needs. You have a lot of special needs students in your class one year? Sorry. You’re fired.

2. No one could seem to find the money to incentivize good performance of teachers. Just fire poor performers based on dubious criteria. Not exactly motivating.

3. Outside of test scores, which are a bad representation of teacher quality and easily manipulated, there isn’t a driving force to fire teachers.

Re: How Many People Can Someone Lead?

#92
post #18

My spouse both leads and manages ~24 direct reports, each of which require near continuous instruction, supervision, mentoring and encouragement. Her role demands an advanced degree with on-going education and certification requirements; exhaustive planning; an endless well of optimism; extensive individualized communication with third-party stake-holders; detailed performance accounting and reporting to stake-holder…

Can’t fire them or choose who to hire either. At least they are not working on 24 different work streams.

Re: How Many People Can Someone Lead?

#93
post #57

Any number of people. Probably the author meant "supervise". There is fundamental difference between leadership and management and it is pretty poor performance on author's part to write about leadership and management and not realize this.

With titles like “team leader” there is some ambiguity.

It’s like the hacker = break into systems vs. tinkerer debate

Re: How Many People Can Someone Lead?

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed the part where she's criminally underpaid for the work she does.

Sorry to shit on your sacred cow, but you mean overpaid. For babysitting. The education children get in public schools is abysmal. Good teachers that actually educate are exceedingly rare. The education requirements for teachers is a sick joke. If you get a master's degree in underwater basket weaving, have a tolerance for noise, you join a teacher's union, work 9 months out of the year, get weeks of holidays, get vi…

Your comments may be true some places but are broadly generalized. The states I’ve lived in have had great public school systems. They pay their teachers well and have great pensions and benefits. Where I grew up the administration did a terrible job managing funds but our teachers were great and eventually the state stepped in and got things running better. Problem is there are just some places that don’t give a shit about public education and places that have a big push to privatize it, and that sure as shit doesn’t always mean better. Just means our tax dollars are going to some company instead of straight to schools.

Re: How Many People Can Someone Lead?

#95
post #57

Any number of people. Probably the author meant "supervise". There is fundamental difference between leadership and management and it is pretty poor performance on author's part to write about leadership and management and not realize this.

With titles like “team leader” there is some ambiguity. It’s like the hacker = break into systems vs. tinkerer debate

Then the title should be something like "How many people a team leader can be in charge of?"

It is fault of the author to give a misleading title, not mine as a reader to pick on it.

Re: How Many People Can Someone Lead?

#96
Admiral Hyman Rickover -- one of the most successful engineering managers in history -- had about 40 direct reports: https://govleaders.org/rickover.htm

> "Some management experts advocate strict limits to the number of people reporting to a common superior—generally five to seven. But if one has capable people who require but a few moments of his time during the day, there is no reason to set such arbitrary constraints. Some forty key people report frequently and directly to me. This enables me to keep up with what is going on and makes it possible for them to get fast action. The latter aspect is particularly important. Capable people will not work for long where they cannot get prompt decisions and actions from their superior."

Re: How Many People Can Someone Lead?

#97
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Growing up we had 60 instead of 24 students and 0 assistants and still no violence and less if none bad conflicts

Troll? Give some background info if this is to be taken seriously.

Apologies for not giving context, i am from india and yes it was very common to have classrooms with 55-60+ students and simply 1 teacher.
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