Earlier quoted context omitted.
But Tesla isn't a cloud-provider company, nor is it a hardware company. None of the technical specs, assembly language, API, SDKs or whatnot have been released for Dojo. The model of "someone will find this training computer useful" is... fine. Google TPUs, NVidia DGX, Intel Xe-HPC, AMD MI100, Cerebras wafer scale AI. These are computers that nominally are aiming for the market of selling computers / APIs / SDKs that…
You forgot the Hauwei Ascend 910. 4096 of them in a rack is an easy exaflop.
The Tesla Dojo Chip Is Impressive, but There Are Some Major Technical Issues
91–100 of 112 posts
Re: The Tesla Dojo Chip Is Impressive, but There Are Some Major Technical Issues
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree with your points on the robotaxi front, but there are many other problems that will totally benefit from a bigger training computer.
> many other problems that will totally benefit from a bigger training computer. I don't really think it's that many. The industry collectively sank untold billions into the blind belief that neural algorithms will somehow turn into "AI." 10 years later, no "AI," and not even a single money making niche use. Right now the industry is deep in sank cost falacy, and people who promised this, and that to investors are no…
What? Pretty much every major Internet company extensively uses NNs. Just recently there was a great published use case by Google using GNNs for travel time predictions
Re: The Tesla Dojo Chip Is Impressive, but There Are Some Major Technical Issues
#93As Hamming suggested in "Art of doing science and engineering", when you want to make something autonomous, you usually have to build a completely different device that solves the same problem, rather than automating the same device. I wonder. For all the money thrown into self-driving cars research , could we have had an autonomous rail system by now? The technology for mostly-autonomous rail is well understood. Mos…
We could have possibly automated some existing rail, but I am not altogether certain that doing so would have lead to any significant improvements in cost or efficiency. Actually laying the infrastructure for mass transit via rail is an entirely different league of cost from what has been dumped into self driving cars. We have a hard enough time agreeing on how to do light rail transit in places that want it, and the…
I'm not altogether convinced that the money and effort spent on self-driving cars has led or will lead to any significant improvements in cost or efficiency either.
Even if it does succeed, it seems to be about convenience anyway.
Re: The Tesla Dojo Chip Is Impressive, but There Are Some Major Technical Issues
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, you can make a point that it's a dead end if you want "real" "general AI" or whatever, but Google/Facebook/etc are definitely using it to their advantage in analytics, if nothing else.
Google will use TPUs. Their own technology. Do you think Facebook would rather use Tesla Dojo instead of NVidia DGX A100 computers? Do you think any company, would rather choose this Dojo to build their internal software-stack on top of instead of CUDA / OpenCL / whatever? I mean, its possible. But Tesla needs to start pumping out Github pages, documents, books, etc. etc. to document how exactly to use Dojo.
I was responding to the idea that neural network-based software/hardware as a whole is an unprofitable industry trend, no comment on Tesla's specific hardware here.
Re: The Tesla Dojo Chip Is Impressive, but There Are Some Major Technical Issues
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
The labor saving advantages of carrying 100 people on the same vehicle are so enormous that there is little motivation if any to quit paying conductors and engineers.
The profit motivation of having 100 people being required to buy gas is the anti-motivation in capitalist oligarchies
That's not a valid argument given that it is just as feasible to price individual transport out of the market while simultaneously raising the price for public transport in such a "capitalist oligarchy". Fossil fuel companies will again go on a public transport buying spree, this time around with the intention of keeping the trains rolling while raising prices to the point of maximum profit.
Re: The Tesla Dojo Chip Is Impressive, but There Are Some Major Technical Issues
#96> they have 1.25MB of SRAM and 1TFlop of FP16/CFP8… This is woefully unequipped for the level of performance they want to achieve.
Any idea how OP made that conclusion?
My GeForce 1080Ti has 1.3MB of in-core L1 caches (28 streaming multiprocessors, 48kb L1 each). It also has L2 but not too large, slightly under 3MB for the whole chip.
The GPU delivers about 10 TFlops of FP32 which needs 2x the RAM bandwidth of FP16. I’m generally OK with the level of performance, at least until the GPU shortage is fixed.
Re: The Tesla Dojo Chip Is Impressive, but There Are Some Major Technical Issues
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
Google will use TPUs. Their own technology. Do you think Facebook would rather use Tesla Dojo instead of NVidia DGX A100 computers? Do you think any company, would rather choose this Dojo to build their internal software-stack on top of instead of CUDA / OpenCL / whatever? I mean, its possible. But Tesla needs to start pumping out Github pages, documents, books, etc. etc. to document how exactly to use Dojo.
I was responding to the idea that neural network-based software/hardware as a whole is an unprofitable industry trend, no comment on Tesla's specific hardware here.
In which case... I'm pretty sure its unproftiable for the vast majority of companies pursuing it.
Just as 80%+ of computer companies went bankrupt in 80s and 90s... I expect 80% of these chips to go bankrupt moving forward.
IBM PC, Amiga, Tandy, Acorn, Commodore, Japan's PC-98... they all were on the hype-train for the personal computer revolution. But very few of those machines ended up commercially successful. (IBM PC arguably did, but it was the knockoff clone Dell that won commercially)
Just because we know its a good idea doesn't mean that the companies putting bets on it will survive. In many ways, entering a hype market that's proven successful (but with no clear market winner yet) is almost more risky due to the huge amount of competition.
Re: The Tesla Dojo Chip Is Impressive, but There Are Some Major Technical Issues
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
> could we have had an autonomous rail system by now? We already have autonomous rail systems. Its called positive train control and was fully implemented like a year or two ago (mandated in 2009, but you know how government works, lol) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_train_control The train conductor has become more-and-more automated to remove the chance of human error. It works with a system of very reliabl…
I wonder if, for the cost spent on CPU-and-engineer-driven research and development of autonomous cars, if we could have had nationwide autonomous rail rolled out .
Probably not, that's likely a hundreds of billions of dollars investment, whereas I imagine self driving investment totals a couple tens at the most.
Re: The Tesla Dojo Chip Is Impressive, but There Are Some Major Technical Issues
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
We could have possibly automated some existing rail, but I am not altogether certain that doing so would have lead to any significant improvements in cost or efficiency. Actually laying the infrastructure for mass transit via rail is an entirely different league of cost from what has been dumped into self driving cars. We have a hard enough time agreeing on how to do light rail transit in places that want it, and the…
I'm not altogether convinced that the money and effort spent on self-driving cars has led or will lead to any significant improvements in cost or efficiency either. Even if it does succeed, it seems to be about convenience anyway.
If self driving succeeds, it is because it is safer than a human driver. If nothing else, it'll cut down on insurance premiums, and increase fuel efficiency by reducing speeding and unnecessary hard acceleration.
There are also a lot more people currently driving than there are existing train drivers (which you can see I was comparing existing infrastructure) so the time tradeoff could easily lead to increased productivity, however you choose to measure it.
All of this, of course, assumes fully autonomous driving. I'm somewhat sceptical that we'll actually get there, myself.
Re: The Tesla Dojo Chip Is Impressive, but There Are Some Major Technical Issues
#100Tesla's claim to delivery ratio is abysmal. I'm not sure why anybody even bothers deconstructing these presentations anymore, they're just fluff.
Tesla's claim to delivery ratio is abysmal. Can you substantiate this concretely? How about a list, with direct sources? (Not opinion pieces.)
> The full system is scheduled for some time in 2022. Knowing Tesla’s timing on Model 3, Model Y, Cyber Truck, Semi, Roadster, and Full Self Driving, we should automatically assume we can pad this timing here.
That's just from the article; off the top of my head:
* NYC to LA fully autonomous drive by 2017.
* 1M Robotaxis on the road by 2021.
* Hyperloop.
* Solar roof tiles.
* All superchargers will be solar-powered.
* Tesla Semi.
Sure, some of these things may be "just around the corner" or "ramping up now", but some of these are claims going back almost 5 - 10 years where Elon says "2 weeks", "next year", "2 years", really whatever it takes to be just believable enough to get enough people to buy into a future where Tesla is worth 10x what it is today.