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The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [pdf]

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Re: The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [pdf]

#91

Post by lostcolony »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #32
lostcolony wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at all true. For that to work, there would have to be, yes, eye tracking and a lot of image processing to change where your gaze appeared to be, but also knowledge of the physical size of the screen, the location of that particular person's feed on the screen, and where the screen is in relation to the camera. Now, it's possible that a lot of that could be inferred if it's assumed the screen is not moved in relat…

> In fact, I've had some people -never- 'meet' my gaze, because they never become self-aware enough to "oh, I should look at my camera when I am talking". I'm not sure that looking into the camera is that important in a one-to-one setting. I'm specifically not talking about a "broadcast", like when you address an assembly and the communication is expected to go both ways. To me, the reason why we look at a person whe…

Yeah, I didn't mean to imply looking at the camera to meet the person's gaze is the "right" thing to do, or expected, or any such thing. Just that I've had times where I've thought "My video shows me looking down; I should probably look at the camera to give the appearance of eye contact".

Re: The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [pdf]

#92

Post by fistynuts »

sneak wrote: post #52
polishdude20 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I almost always minimize my own video on my screen. Just seeing myself makes me really self conscious.

Unless I’m presenting or speaking for more than an interjection, I generally turn off the sending of video. There’s little value (IMO) in 320p/720p low bitrate “facial expressions” which are just as often compression artifacts as they are information about emotional state. Maybe once video calls are routinely 1080p/2160p it will matter more, but 320p (the default for most systems today) at a low bitrate isn’t really…

720 is the default for Google Meet and gives a decent quality picture imo. There's definitely value in seeing others at that resolution - the restricting factor is people's unreliable or narrow bandwidth internet connection.

Re: The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [pdf]

#93

Post by stripline »

makeitdouble wrote: post #46
Leszek wrote: post #20

Anecdotal, and I don't want it to sound like my example is intended to disprove this research or anyone else's experience, but I personally find it extremely fatiguing if people _don't_ turn on their video. More specifically, when I'm talking in a meeting or giving a presentation, I find it very helpful to see other people, see their reactions, see whether they laugh at jokes or look confused when I'm bad at explaini…

This is true and also something we eventually get used to I think. I've seen the same flow happening IRL, where people new to the team expected a somewhat responsive crowd when they present, just to be met with a wall of laptop screens and inscrutable faces when the time comes. To be clear the people in the room were paying attention, and effectively cross checking info and exploring the points they wanted to focus o…

I can echo OP - have given a lot of presentations over the past year to blank screens. I used to enjoy presenting and thought it was one of my strengths, now I end every presentation with that sinking feeling like I bombed. Maybe I just need the feedback, but I also feel like I can tailor the presentation to the audience better if I pick up on body language in person. For example I may quickly gloss over a slide or spend ten minutes explaining the background depending on how the audience is keeping up.

Re: The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [pdf]

#94

Post by matsemann »

ubermonkey wrote: post #86
matsemann wrote: post #44

What I find fatiguing when doing a whole-day of meetings remote compared to in person, is that there is no small-talk, no breaks where you get to know the others etc. Just business for X hours straight.

My approach to this -- and I get that it comes from a position of privilege -- is that I encourage (well, almost enforce, or insist on) a bit of small-talk and socialization at the beginnings of all my meetings. I can do this because I'm almost always leading or facilitating, and quite often I meet with the same set of people several times a week for several weeks, so I get some sense of their personal lives. "How wa…

Yeah, the problem is when it's like 5-6+ people in the meeting. A round around the "table" feels forced. But normally it would be groups of 2-3 chatting by themselves before the meeting really starts, that is lost when remote and everyone hears everyone and there can only be 1 conversation.

Re: The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [pdf]

#95

Post by mmaunder »

I've been advocating for voice-only calls for remote teams for years. Most people think I'm nuts. Cameras are only there to try and emulate an office environment. But the effect they have on employee flexibility and meeting style is profound.

Once you turn the camera on you need to dress as if you're in the office, even though you're at home. You need to design your camera background to look professional i.e. emulate the office, even though it's your home. Your partner, kids or guests don't get to walk through the room anymore without creating anxiety in you - even thought it's your home.

Voice only? It's a different world. You can dress the way you'd dress at home. You can have family and friends walking by without an issue. You don't have to turn your home into some kind of stage that pretends to be an office.

But voice has even greater benefits: It's lower bandwidth so you can travel more freely. You can use push to talk to mask background noise when you're on a group call. Voice also has a leveling effect among colleagues so it stops being about who is the best looking, has the nicest haircut, or the fanciest suit. It's about a purely intellectual connection with your colleagues. In that sense, voice only is a leveler and an enabler. It breaks down barriers.

At Defiant (our 38 person cybersecurity company) we've been doing voice only since we started hiring. I designed our collaboration this way because I was a fone phreak in the early 1990s (hanging out on #phreak on effnet) and I collaborated with my best friends voice only and via text on IRC, in some cases for years. So I knew going into building a software company that I could make voice-only collaboration work along with text. We started hiring and going voice only in 2015, when even the idea of remote was absurd to many companies.

Now, in 2021, we have the Fortune 5000 stumbling into remote work and doing their damndest to emulate the office environment. And the camera is a core part of that attempt to emulate. Not only does it have strong negatives, like the fatigue the study mentions, but it also doesn't take advantage of the benefits of voice-only and having a truly intellectual, relaxed, and collaborative environment between remote colleagues.

We use Teamspeak for our big team calls with PTT enabled which is a game changer for noisy environments. And we use mostly slack calls for one on one or small groups.

Re: The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [pdf]

#97

Post by JohnFen »

blitzar wrote: post #51

How about "The Fatiguing Effects of In-Person Meetings"? > popular press discussion of virtual meeting fatigue (i.e.,“Zoom fatigue”), described as a feeling of being drained and lacking energy following a day of virtual meetings. I am sure I am not the only person to have felt the effects of so-called 'meeting fatigue', being drained and lacking in energy following a day of sitting in meetings in person. This piece r…

Yes, meetings are awful whether in person or remote, but for me, the remote ones are worse.

Re: The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [pdf]

#98

Post by JohnFen »

ubermonkey wrote: post #86
matsemann wrote: post #44

What I find fatiguing when doing a whole-day of meetings remote compared to in person, is that there is no small-talk, no breaks where you get to know the others etc. Just business for X hours straight.

My approach to this -- and I get that it comes from a position of privilege -- is that I encourage (well, almost enforce, or insist on) a bit of small-talk and socialization at the beginnings of all my meetings. I can do this because I'm almost always leading or facilitating, and quite often I meet with the same set of people several times a week for several weeks, so I get some sense of their personal lives. "How wa…

> I encourage (well, almost enforce, or insist on) a bit of small-talk and socialization at the beginnings of all my meetings.

We have an executive who insists on doing this, too, and it's universally hated. You can't force small talk, and when he does, it just makes things awkward for everyone.

It's even worse when he tries to force the issue by singling someone out with a small-talky question like your example "How was your daugher's birthday". The person being singled out is then in the hotseat and the discomfort in their voice while they scramble to come up with an answer is palpable. It's like being put on public display.

Re: The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [pdf]

#99

Post by JohnFen »

FriedrichN wrote: post #53

Virtual meetings are usually much shorter, so in my experience a lot less fatiguing than IRL meetings (especially if I have to drive somewhere). Long meetings, virtual or in meatspace are always fatiguing. And they're very unnecessary almost all of the time. But I prefer it when people have their camera on, that way I can tell whether or not they're engaged or not. And because of this 'being watched' effect meetings…

Oh, man, you're lucky!

Not only are our virtual meetings no shorter than the old in-person ones, but we get to have a lot more of them, too!

Re: The Fatiguing Effects of Camera Use in Virtual Meetings [pdf]

#100

Post by kQq9oHeAz6wLLS »

atq2119 wrote: post #47
kQq9oHeAz6wLLS wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked from home for a decade now, and I've found the people who want cameras on in meetings are the folks who don't normally work remote. They're not used to not seeing reactions, so it throws them when nobody has a camera on. The people who have worked remote for a while - at least since before covid - don't ever use their camera.

It's not even about home office work necessarily, it's about whether there's a long-term culture of having remote conversation. The company I work for is old by tech standards, and has always had fairly distributed offices. People there have been doing remote conferencing long before video conferences were a thing, and the culture is a bit mixed but leaning heavily towards not turning on video.

Excellent point
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