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A CSS framework to recreate Windows 7 GUI

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Re: A CSS framework to recreate Windows 7 GUI

#91

Post by jorgesborges »

frosted-flakes wrote: post #84
tazjin wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average user has no idea how to use most UIs these days. I have to explain basics of her phone to my mum every time I try to video call her. The difference between tech people and people like her is that it's easier for us to notice these issues and talk about them, while - if something doesn't work for her - she'll just shrug and go tend to the garden.

In my experience, these kind of people are scared of experimenting because they think they might screw something up, and the user-interface doesn't help. My dad has an iPhone, and he doesn't know anything about it. I doubt he's ever closed a browser tab, rearranged his home screen, or switched a running app by double-pressing the home button, and he has problems with the most basic of things. He also has an Apple wat…

There's something to be said about experimenting, but I hate that iPhones have features that are literally hidden and without documentation. Learning to use my iPhone involved randomly pressing things down to see if a menu appeared or reading "10 Things You Didn't Know Your iPhone Could Do" articles. And years later I'm still learning simple things like how to quickly move my cursor when texting (press and hold the space bar).

Re: A CSS framework to recreate Windows 7 GUI

#92

Post by cush »

causality0 wrote: post #2

I'm beginning to have the feeling Windows 7 is the last Microsoft OS I'll ever feel good about installing.

I feel that if software like Windows could be as responsive as the fashion industry, we'd go through the same kind of cycles that fashion does.

Consumers would adopt a retro look and feel to their apps if they could. Unfortunately, it's all just too disconnected to coordinate your whole wardrobe of apps to fit any one style.

Re: A CSS framework to recreate Windows 7 GUI

#93

Post by howaboutnope »

least wrote: post #90
howaboutnope wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hearkening to the good old days of when UI/UX was good, which just so happens to coincide with when they really started getting into computing Nah. I started out with Workbench 1.3, which was flat. Because they literally hadn't the colors available to do more. I didn't use them, but Mac and Atari ST were the same. Then came Workbench 2.0, then MUI ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_User_Interface ), and I recogn…

Change for the sake of change isn't necessarily a good thing, but rarely is a change in UI/UX objectively bad, which includes the shift from skeuomorphism over to flat design. The article you've linked has been fairly criticized for it essentially removing controls from their methodology by things like using lower contrast buttons for the 'flatter' designs, which is not essential to the design paradigm. Ultimately, I…

> but rarely is a change in UI/UX objectively bad

We're not looking at a box with unknown contents that we would need to go by probabilities. We can just look at the thing.

> The article you've linked has been fairly criticized for it essentially removing controls from their methodology by things like using lower contrast buttons for the 'flatter' designs, which is not essential to the design paradigm.

I can, right now in Win 10, show you plenty examples where there is no contrast and no distinction between an overlay window and what's behind it. Not low contrast, exactly the same color.

> Ultimately, I'm still going to argue that this is a matter of subjectivity and as we age the less accepting we are to change

This is the same indirect reasoning as "people like what they used first", which in my case is provably, objectively, false.

I might as well say "as people age and grow in confidence and experience, they trust their own judgement more, and care less about just going along with whatever is pushed just to fit in" or anything like that.

Re: A CSS framework to recreate Windows 7 GUI

#95

Post by smusamashah »

This project is extension of 98.css. In the thread where Obsidian released there mobile version they said Obsidian could be made to look like anything because it's Electron based. So I made windows 98 Theme (or may be it's windows 2000) for Obsidian. It's not perfect yet but it's close enough https://github.com/SMUsamaShah/Obsidian-Win98-Edition

Re: A CSS framework to recreate Windows 7 GUI

#96

Post by least »

howaboutnope wrote: post #93
least wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Change for the sake of change isn't necessarily a good thing, but rarely is a change in UI/UX objectively bad, which includes the shift from skeuomorphism over to flat design. The article you've linked has been fairly criticized for it essentially removing controls from their methodology by things like using lower contrast buttons for the 'flatter' designs, which is not essential to the design paradigm. Ultimately, I…

> but rarely is a change in UI/UX objectively bad We're not looking at a box with unknown contents that we would need to go by probabilities. We can just look at the thing. > The article you've linked has been fairly criticized for it essentially removing controls from their methodology by things like using lower contrast buttons for the 'flatter' designs, which is not essential to the design paradigm. I can, right n…

> This is the same indirect reasoning as "people like what they used first", which in my case is provably, objectively, false.

It's more like someone at some point stops being open to change, which allows some breathing room, but eventually they'll prefer to stick to what they know rather than having to learn something new. This isn't a value judgement, just that when something works and feels right to someone why would they feel the need to try something else just for the sake of trying it?

I use vim. Most people don't and would argue it's bad user experience as it's not intuitive. What's intuitive for text editing is largely just based on convention, though. I think vim is a great user experience because it allows me to edit text much more efficiently. It's entirely possible the text editor Kakoune would be even better than vim at doing the whole modal editor thing, but I do not care to find out. It took me some time to learn and get comfortable with vim and I don't see much value in going with the new thing even if it potentially has real upsides.

When it comes to UX/UI design, you'll certainly find plenty of conventions that are broadly agreed upon. Most people would find it difficult to read yellow text on a white background for example so that would be considered bad UI. But in the case of GUI design like determining how much shadow there is beneath a 'button' element or what color links should be and if that color is distinguishable is pretty subjective and a part of that comes down to convention rather than an innate preference in humans.

Re: A CSS framework to recreate Windows 7 GUI

#97

Post by farazzz »

foxpurple wrote: post #32
superasn wrote: post #28

What I love about these old designs is how obvious everything is. You just can't miss the button or the tabs. Now after all this skeuomorphic design revolution it's so hard to tell, is it a button, text, link etc. It probably looks better but it is at the cost of extra thinking for the user.

This is such a hacker news comment. Somehow a group of people supposedly good at using computers struggle to work out what a button is while the average user seems to have no problems.

This is synonymous with calling a writer bad at writing because they pointed out bad writing. The conclusion should be the opposite shouldn’t it?

Re: A CSS framework to recreate Windows 7 GUI

#98

Post by howaboutnope »

least wrote: post #96
howaboutnope wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but rarely is a change in UI/UX objectively bad We're not looking at a box with unknown contents that we would need to go by probabilities. We can just look at the thing. > The article you've linked has been fairly criticized for it essentially removing controls from their methodology by things like using lower contrast buttons for the 'flatter' designs, which is not essential to the design paradigm. I can, right n…

> This is the same indirect reasoning as "people like what they used first", which in my case is provably, objectively, false. It's more like someone at some point stops being open to change, which allows some breathing room, but eventually they'll prefer to stick to what they know rather than having to learn something new. This isn't a value judgement, just that when something works and feels right to someone why wo…

> It's more like someone at some point stops being open to change, which allows some breathing room, but eventually they'll prefer to stick to what they know rather than having to learn something new.

That could justify anything that is new. Just take the people who think nuclear would be a bad idea -- "it's just because that's not how they are used to doing things".

What is there to "learn" about, say, 50 pixels of padding rather than 5 pixels of padding and 1 pixel of border? All of these "arguments" are avoiding the actual subject matter at hand to make grand generalizations.

> It's entirely possible the text editor Kakoune would be even better than vim at doing the whole modal editor thing, but I do not care to find out.

Then speak for yourself, because none of that describes me. I constantly try out new things; some things supersede what I used to that point, others fall short.

> what color links should be and if that color is distinguishable is pretty subjective

Not in the case of two colors being the exact same. There is nothing subjective about that at all.

Re: A CSS framework to recreate Windows 7 GUI

#99

Post by Const-me »

hnlmorg wrote: post #45
eeegnu wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows 7 had a very professional feel to me that subsequent versions lack. Probably has to do with attempting to create a unified tablet / phone / desktop experience.

I don't want a unified tablet / phone / desktop experience. I want interfaces that are optimised for the device rather than optimised for encouraging vendor lock ins. Also it wasn't Windows 7 that first attempted that. PDAs back in ~2000 ran Windows CE with a Windows 95 / NT4 era UI. That also wasn't well optimised for smaller screens touch screens, hence the requirement to use a stylus. Then what followed was Window…

> That also wasn't well optimised for smaller screens touch screens, hence the requirement to use a stylus

The reason for the stylus wasn’t software. Capacitive touch screens didn’t really existed, at least not in consumer devices.

Apple did that. They haven’t invented that of course, acquired other company https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FingerWorks but it was them who brought the tech to mainstream in 2007.

Re: A CSS framework to recreate Windows 7 GUI

#100

Post by kyleee »

matttproud wrote: post #25
eeegnu wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows 7 had a very professional feel to me that subsequent versions lack. Probably has to do with attempting to create a unified tablet / phone / desktop experience.

I had been using Windows since 3.0: Windows 2000 was that stable, professional sweet spot for me, even at times NT 4. Zero fluff, relatively consistent experience, and little visible intergenerational technology accretion. The 2000 scheduler felt reasonably predictable and crisp, like how BSD on a workstation did compared to Linux, for the longest time. Unpredictable interface latency is a dealbreaker for me. I never…

It's a sad state of things; current design trends frequently punish users and make people fearful to explore and learn on their own how programs and user interfaces work.

It hits me hardest too when I see older people frustrated by the ever changing design and functionality churn. It prevents them building confidence and feeling empowered. For me much of the current computing experience is the opposite of rewarding curiousity and it's deeply sad, IMHO

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