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Learn Perl in about 2 hours 30 minutes

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Re: Learn Perl in about 2 hours 30 minutes

#91

Post by derrickpetzold »

chromatic wrote: post #89
derrickpetzold wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you I did read the post. Python has pypi. Ruby has gems. I'm not going to google the rest but if they don't have one there is no reason why they can't. And FYI pypi is better than CPAN so all the other stuff in the that post is crap imho. I was a Perl dev for ~10 years. Now have about 5 worth of Python. So thank you.

I'm not going to google the rest but if they don't have one there is no reason why they can't. That somehow fails to convince me that other language ecosystems parallel the CPAN in breadth, scope, maturity, and ecosystem. See CPAN Testers, for example.

Oh my apologies I wasn't trying to convince anyone of anything if that's what you are thinking. I was only stating fact based on my experience but that's okay just downvote this and make yourself right.

Re: Learn Perl in about 2 hours 30 minutes

#92

Post by bbbbbbbbb »

Perl is a really great language that i came to love over the years. First, I've been writing PHP stuff then moved to Perl and experienced Java,Actionscript,Javascript,Objective-C,Python... But all of them, Perl was the most powerful and expressive language.

For those who learn Javascript, Perl object literal notation should be really easy to get and if you do some jQuery stuff, many things should come naturally to you somehow. Perl supports packages, closure, utf8 since many years whereas they are just coming to PHP (It's a real pain to go back to PHP for some projects... as it looks like a huge trash of functions in the global namespace with no cohesion at all... working with array_, mb_ or preg_* functions is such a pain... hopefully the doc helps in understanding the quirks of the language). The integration of regex as an operator is so nice. q[] or qq[] helps quite a lot and I quickly miss them... Controlling each instance of the program flow in code is very powerful too.

I guess the very minimalistic OOP system shipped with Perl did not help get Perl across the board of a wider range of company...

Obviously, this le/gend/ary image of unreadable code that one-liners, and to some extend sysadmin community, gave to the language has left a very bad taste in the mouth... and it is now very hard to get rid of.

when you look at http://mojolicio.us/ or http://perldancer.org/ for web development, Perl::Critic that analyzes your code for bad coding habits(JSLink like), perltidy that reformat your code to follow your conventions or Devel::NYTProf to profile every line of your code... I don't even talk about CPAN that has always get the job done for me in like 90% of the case...

I still have to find a language that offers such a powerful ecosystem.

And for those who wonder, Perl is very active here in Japan.

Re: Learn Perl in about 2 hours 30 minutes

#93

Post by kamaal »

derrickpetzold wrote: post #91
chromatic wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not going to google the rest but if they don't have one there is no reason why they can't. That somehow fails to convince me that other language ecosystems parallel the CPAN in breadth, scope, maturity, and ecosystem. See CPAN Testers, for example.

Oh my apologies I wasn't trying to convince anyone of anything if that's what you are thinking. I was only stating fact based on my experience but that's okay just downvote this and make yourself right.

Nobody was down voting you to make themselves right. But the remarks that you made about CPAN to be frank didn't make any sense at all to anybody who has worked with CPAN seriously over years.

Both in terms of quantity and quality CPAN beats any other scripting ecosystem by a very great margin. And its really not about the number of the modules. That many number of modules would not have been possible if Perl(syntax, extensions system) was not flexible enough to allow them.

The traditional approach used by languages is to first build a set of semantics define a syntax and standard library for it. Then any other development in that language happens through frameworks and libraries. Perl is special in this case that Perl allows syntax extensions through modules. There fore you will find not just Modules to do your task, but also modules that add and extend to exiting Perl syntax with sugar. Perl 6 extends this concept further through grammars.

How often and how many language are there today(Counting Python and Ruby especially) that can add something like Moose(Moosex extensions) and other syntactical extension to their language, without breaking backwards compatibility?

Python took around 8 years and broke backwards compatibility to make as little changes as context of a for loop and print statement. Now imagine what it would take Python to fix its object system or its scoping problems.

Re: Learn Perl in about 2 hours 30 minutes

#94

Post by derrickpetzold »

kamaal wrote: post #93
derrickpetzold wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh my apologies I wasn't trying to convince anyone of anything if that's what you are thinking. I was only stating fact based on my experience but that's okay just downvote this and make yourself right.

Nobody was down voting you to make themselves right. But the remarks that you made about CPAN to be frank didn't make any sense at all to anybody who has worked with CPAN seriously over years. Both in terms of quantity and quality CPAN beats any other scripting ecosystem by a very great margin. And its really not about the number of the modules. That many number of modules would not have been possible if Perl(syntax,…

Thank you for the excellent reply. That was response I was hoping for. I don't know everything and I appreciate you talking on point and not just pressing the down arrow because someone said something you don't like.

Regards,

Re: Learn Perl in about 2 hours 30 minutes

#95

Post by derrickpetzold »

kamaal wrote: post #82
derrickpetzold wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should...

I didn't get your point. I have found Perl(And many have) very useful for whatever we do. So we continue to use it. Just because there is some new shiny stuff around, we don't use just for the sake for using it. Trolling Perl to advocate Python hasn't helped for decades and won't help now either. A better debate will be to argue on technical merits. Trolling and whining gets people curious to verify if all that is tr…

To be fair I didn't think I was trolling but I can completely understand why you think I was. I could only talk about things I as knew them to be. Whether that makes me an ass or an idiot I don't care. I did want to hear a good argument as why I was wrong and again I appreciate your reply.

EDIT: My original comment was really just meant to be humorous I am sure know why since you are aware of Perl's syntax. It did make me a lot of money at a time but nevertheless I stand by what I said as that is the best advice I could give myself right now.

Re: Learn Perl in about 2 hours 30 minutes

#96

Post by otterley »

derrickpetzold wrote: post #79
rjbond3rd wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you read what you're responding to. How can they all have an "unparalleled extension ecosystem"?

Thank you I did read the post. Python has pypi. Ruby has gems. I'm not going to google the rest but if they don't have one there is no reason why they can't. And FYI pypi is better than CPAN so all the other stuff in the that post is crap imho. I was a Perl dev for ~10 years. Now have about 5 worth of Python. So thank you.

There is a culture of documentation, cooperation and tolerance in the Perl community that, IME, doesn't really exist for other language communities (Ruby and Python).

Compare, for example, AnyEvent's documentation with that of Twisted - or any of Perl's standard documentation with that of Ruby.

Re: Learn Perl in about 2 hours 30 minutes

#97

Post by berntb »

derrickpetzold wrote: post #94
kamaal wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody was down voting you to make themselves right. But the remarks that you made about CPAN to be frank didn't make any sense at all to anybody who has worked with CPAN seriously over years. Both in terms of quantity and quality CPAN beats any other scripting ecosystem by a very great margin. And its really not about the number of the modules. That many number of modules would not have been possible if Perl(syntax,…

Thank you for the excellent reply. That was response I was hoping for. I don't know everything and I appreciate you talking on point and not just pressing the down arrow because someone said something you don't like. Regards,

>>... not just pressing the down arrow because someone said something you don't like.

Sigh... :-)

He started:

>>Nobody was down voting you to make themselves right. But the remarks that you made about CPAN to be frank didn't make any sense [etc]

Are you really surprised about the down votes...?

Re: Learn Perl in about 2 hours 30 minutes

#98

Post by derrickpetzold »

berntb wrote: post #97
derrickpetzold wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for the excellent reply. That was response I was hoping for. I don't know everything and I appreciate you talking on point and not just pressing the down arrow because someone said something you don't like. Regards,

>>... not just pressing the down arrow because someone said something you don't like. Sigh... :-) He started : >>Nobody was down voting you to make themselves right. But the remarks that you made about CPAN to be frank didn't make any sense [etc] Are you really surprised about the down votes...?

> Sigh... :-)

I honestly have no idea what you mean by that :).

> Are you really surprised about the down votes...?

For that post of course not. For the others yes.

I can only assume you are coming from this viewpoint

"Please avoid introducing classic flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say about them."

and no I don't think I had anything genuinely new to bring but I how could I know about something I didn't know about.

I guess what I am really saying if people can't acknowledge the flaws in a thing how could they ever make it better. And to say even more if they can't vocalize their reasoning how does downvoting make it okay but I am sure that is another thing I have missed.

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