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FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

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Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#91

Post by throwawaysea »

bluGill wrote: post #66
throwawaysea wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a pivot for me, particularly since I got the vaccine, but I think there are legitimate reasons to be hesitant and removing one reason doesn’t invalidate other reasons people may bring up. The big one in my mind is how do Pfizer, BioNTech, or the FDA validate safety of the vaccine over the long term? For instance what if it turns out that something approved today turns out to be carcinogenic twenty years from…

mRNA is a basic building block of life. Your body makes and breaks it down constantly. If there was any worry about it life itself wouldn't be possible.

The vaccine contains other ingredients as well.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#92

Post by spywaregorilla »

nanis wrote: post #52
spywaregorilla wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you put on your tinfoil hat by mistake there buddy. None of the numbers you provided have any sort of relevance to the links you posted. Net breakthrough deaths, as far as I can tell, is not a real metric. And only 4 million people have died of covid globally to begin with...

> I think you put on your tinfoil hat by mistake there buddy. Condescension is not helpful. > Net breakthrough deaths, ..., is not a real metric. What terminology would you recommend for getting the number of people who died from Covid19 after being fully vaccinated against Covid19? >> Deaths† 1,587 (20%) >> †341 (21%) of 1,587 fatal cases reported as asymptomatic or not related to COVID-19. The numbers are from the…

> What terminology would you recommend for getting the number of people who died from Covid19 after being fully vaccinated against Covid19?

"Breakthrough deaths" not "Net breakthrough deaths"

Your post is flagged and unreadable now but I'm pretty sure you were claiming 8 million breakthrough deaths. That's obviously wrong because it's two times larger than the total number of deaths globally among all people.

> Since the CDC do not report these as a time series, but they just overwrite the most recent numbers, I linked to snapshots of the same page over time[2]. If there is an arithmetic error, I would like to know

Your error comes from failing to compare to the right control group. Vaccinated people have a tendency to be much higher risk than the unvaccinated. Notably, no children are in this group. You're getting fooled by bayes law here. The baseline risk of people who were vaccinated was on average much higher. 80% of people over 75 are vaccinated. Less than half of people under 30 are.

And on top of that are missing the bigger picture that the most conservative estimates I've seen suggest 79% of deaths are among the unvaccinated. Combine that with the previous statement about who is getting vaccinated and you have a very clear picture that vaccines are drastically helping reduce death rates.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#93

Post by roody15 »

tohnjitor wrote: post #73
acdha wrote: post #6

I’m wondering what the odds are that people will pivot from “it’s experimental” to “it was rushed due to politics/greed”. I think a huge factor will be how many employers, colleges, etc. are now willing and legally able to require vaccination. It’s one thing to say you trust something you read on Facebook more than your doctor and quite another to walk away from a job because of it.

FDA approval is mostly meaningless. Just this year they approved an Alzheimer's treatment which ended clinical trials early because it didn't work. https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/06/08/th...

This is really u fortunate and true. Approving a drug that doesn’t work and rushing a vaccine through the process may have the effect of less faith in governmental organizations.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#94

Post by peakaboo »

cbg0 wrote: post #13
cmpb wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also possible that its approval will result in more people getting the vaccine due to those people now having an out from their initial reaction that it was rushed (but still sticking to their convictions up to now in order to avoid embarrassment).

More likely than not, they'll just move the goalposts farther and find a different excuse for not getting it.

Even if true, so what? It's their bodies. They should be allowed to choose, just like you are.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#95

Post by input_sh »

tasogare wrote: post #34
cbg0 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More likely than not, they'll just move the goalposts farther and find a different excuse for not getting it.

Exactly like governments are moving goalposts with their measures: one lockdown... second one... wait no, a third one is necessary; herd immunity will be reached at 70% vaccination + infected, ah no actually only vaccinated count and it's 90%... did I say 99%? No, it will be 100%! Meanwhile in Japan: people living freely their lives with no lockdowns, no forced vaccination, no vaccine pass. Another model is possible…

You may wanna look into Japan's cases and covid measures again. They got fucked over hard by the Olympics that about 80% of the population was against. 3x as many cases as their previous worst wave, despite travel being banned from pretty much everywhere and virtually nobody opposing masks.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#96

Post by eynsham »

tohnjitor wrote: post #73
acdha wrote: post #6

I’m wondering what the odds are that people will pivot from “it’s experimental” to “it was rushed due to politics/greed”. I think a huge factor will be how many employers, colleges, etc. are now willing and legally able to require vaccination. It’s one thing to say you trust something you read on Facebook more than your doctor and quite another to walk away from a job because of it.

FDA approval is mostly meaningless. Just this year they approved an Alzheimer's treatment which ended clinical trials early because it didn't work. https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/06/08/th...

This suggests FDA approval doesn’t say much about whether something works—presumably it still says something about safety. At any rate, whether or not FDA approval means much, to a certain subset of people it ostensibly did, since the objection that there was only an EUA was fairly common.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#97

Post by anonymouse008 »

bart_spoon wrote: post #62
giantg2 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or continue an existing reason: "Information is not yet available about potential long-term health outcomes."

Which still wouldn't be a logical argument, given that the same applies regarding long-term health outcomes regarding getting sick with Covid. But I suspect you are right.

100% this. Which is why the only group of people I will not question their vaccine hesitancy are those already recovered from Covid direct infection.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#98

Post by hunterb123 »

felipellrocha wrote: post #55
acdha wrote: post #6

I’m wondering what the odds are that people will pivot from “it’s experimental” to “it was rushed due to politics/greed”. I think a huge factor will be how many employers, colleges, etc. are now willing and legally able to require vaccination. It’s one thing to say you trust something you read on Facebook more than your doctor and quite another to walk away from a job because of it.

Huge odds. People were anti-vaxxers before, and were just looking for an excuse to justify their position. Goal post moving is a thing to be expected nowadays

Question long-term effects of mRNA vaccines, anti-vaxxer!

Question certain "green" program spending, climate-denier!

Question voting or border security, racist!

Question certain political figures, conspiracy theorist!

Issues are much more nuanced than a one word dismissal used to dehumanize the dissenter.

You can be hesitant of these new mRNA vaccines but for classic vaccines that use dead / weakened viruses, that doesn't make you an "anti-vaxxer".

You could also already have antibodies from natural immunity and not deem the small risk of the vaccine side-effects worthy.

Re: FDA Approves First Covid-19 Vaccine

#100

Post by bart_spoon »

formerly_proven wrote: post #75
bart_spoon wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which still wouldn't be a logical argument, given that the same applies regarding long-term health outcomes regarding getting sick with Covid. But I suspect you are right.

"But Covid is something natural, while the vaccine is man-made."

HIV and Ebola are natural. Your point has no merit.
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