Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#91

Post by hkt » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 7:19 AM UTC

Permit wrote: post #5

> According to the filing, when she told a manager in November about her IBS and that she needed to use the bathroom up to six times a day, the manager told her to get a doctor's note. It appeared from the filing that Olivero didn't get the note. > Olivero then said in the filing that in January her manager said she was going to be written up, and that she'd need to get a doctor's note within five days. That seems...…

I'm from the UK, can someone explain the timescales, cost and process of getting a doctor's note in the US?

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#92

Post by davidjytang » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 1:43 PM UTC

mrmuagi wrote: post #34

Permit wrote: post #5

> According to the filing, when she told a manager in November about her IBS and that she needed to use the bathroom up to six times a day, the manager told her to get a doctor's note. It appeared from the filing that Olivero didn't get the note. > Olivero then said in the filing that in January her manager said she was going to be written up, and that she'd need to get a doctor's note within five days. That seems...…

The scenario becomes weird when you take a step back and realize that she is a human being and bodily functions are even being monitored in such a way. I go to the bathroom sometimes more than her and the reasons are extremely defensible even outside medical reasons. Drink water often and see (although I would say perhaps with electrolytes mixed in as not to flush them out). I would not even doubt this was an excuse…

I myself am used to not being monitored. But a famous PCB factories in my country has famous policy that production line workers should always "run" to the toilet. Consequences if caught walking.

Also famous anecdote of Terry Guo: during breaks between meetings, top level executives including Guo might go to the toilets. If you were one of the executive and happen to pick a urinal right next to Guo, he would peek if your urine looked healthy. If it looks healthy, that means he can and will put more workload on you.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#93

Post by nicoffeine » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 2:54 PM UTC

bllguo wrote: post #82

nicoffeine wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there has to be a line somewhere. is 8 frequent? 10? there is some threshold X, what we care about most is the response to crossing it Are you okay with your employee or client installing screen tracking software on your computer so someone can decide appropriate thresholds for your work and bathroom habits? > I'm sorry but this is the reality if you work a menial job where you are easily replaced. Are we back to c…

i object to those methods but not the concept of appropriate thresholds did i miss your memo? work can be both essential and menial, they are orthogonal dimensions to me. if a task does not require specialized skills i will call it menial.

> i object to those methods but not the concept of appropriate thresholds

What's the difference? Why does Amazon have the right to direct observation of their work and bathroom breaks, but your employers/clients don't have the right to direct observation of your work and bathroom breaks?

> if a task does not require specialized skills i will call it menial.

"Specialized" in that context is meaningless. Skills are skills -- there is no job in any modern economy that doesn't require training, whether it's through education, provided by the employer, or picked up through practice doing the work. It would take you years to achieve the productivity of harvesting food[1] compared to those who are skilled at the job, and vice versa.

If you're in IT, the worker shortage that provides you with higher wages is not based on your merit, it's based on market conditions totally out of your control. There are people who have more education/experience, who have invested more time and effort in their field, earn less money, and yet make more substantial contributions to the economy than you do. So I don't think it's wise for anyone to start calling jobs "menial." It's a cultural practice designed to justify worker exploitation.

[1] https://youtu.be/OTCqyfJwkx0?t=422

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#94

Post by klyrs » Mon, Aug 23, 2021, 6:43 PM UTC

mullingitover wrote: post #83

klyrs wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IBS is a diagnosis of last resort. You don't get that from a walk-in clinic, you get that from a months- or years-long quest to eliminate every possible cause, before your doctor throws up their hands and calls it IBS.

Counterpoint: someone I know personally got that diagnosis from a single doctor's visit, so this isn't exactly a hard rule.

Yeah, true. Different doctors have different standards, and there are significant regional differences in standards of care. I've had several walk-in clinics tell me that I need an established GP to deal with certain issues.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#95

Post by orionblastar » Tue, Aug 24, 2021, 1:09 AM UTC

1123581321 wrote: post #21

orionblastar wrote: post #12

I have irrital bowel syndrome and I got a not from my doctor. I also missed days because I was in a hospital. The law firm I worked for lost the notes from my doctor and fired me.

Did you get a lawyer? That’s an easy settlement.

No I went on unemployment and looked for a new job.

Law firm has amazing lawyers and I was afraid of being blackballed.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#96

Post by risedotmoe » Tue, Aug 24, 2021, 2:15 AM UTC

threatofrain wrote: post #64

risedotmoe wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who’s dealt with this exact situation, someone with a “bowel issue” likely doesn’t take 5 minute poops unless they have diarrhea. 20 minutes is about normal when you’re constipated but have to poop 5 times a day. If you don’t go to the bathroom you’re in pain and unfocused until you poop and until you’re done pooping. What’s spent in those 20 minutes? Dreading people will say exactly what you just said whi…

Why does this not qualify for disability?

Because you are physically able to do the work. You might be able to get it approved in some areas and you might not. Some people with IBS go almost unnoticed while others it can be debilitating. You can't blanket the disorder as a disability because its a case by case basis.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#97

Post by orionblastar » Tue, Aug 24, 2021, 5:24 AM UTC

1123581321 wrote: post #73

mrmuagi wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, I agree you disagree with me too... (sorry I am Canadian). That doesn't change the fact that there are hurdles that atleast factor in to how the human who was fired in that scenario may feel? And isn't that a major component to the human experience, how we feel, especially in the situation where your employeer fired you for a reason you learned was their mistake? That's full on feel mode for me, I don't know if…

This time I agree with you (except for me having an iron will.) :) I think it’s important for those of us who understand when legal is the correct route to take to mention it as if it’s a normal course of action. Convincing people to even do a free consultation with an employment lawyer can be challenging, especially for lower earners who could benefit more from the restoration of their lost income.

It isn't easy, and if other employers found out you sued your employer they might blacklist you.

You only get 1/3rd of your annual income, and the lawyer gets 2/3rd of the income for legal fees.

Plus a good lawyer can delay the case and drive up fees and court time to the point that it is not worth it anymore.

Maybe I should have sued, but I was scared of a backlash.

I didn't ask to have IBS, I developed it from all of the work stress. Sometimes it feels like I am passing glass, and the pain makes it last longer in the bathroom.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#98

Post by 1123581321 » Tue, Aug 24, 2021, 5:52 AM UTC

orionblastar wrote: post #97

1123581321 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This time I agree with you (except for me having an iron will.) :) I think it’s important for those of us who understand when legal is the correct route to take to mention it as if it’s a normal course of action. Convincing people to even do a free consultation with an employment lawyer can be challenging, especially for lower earners who could benefit more from the restoration of their lost income.

It isn't easy, and if other employers found out you sued your employer they might blacklist you. You only get 1/3rd of your annual income, and the lawyer gets 2/3rd of the income for legal fees. Plus a good lawyer can delay the case and drive up fees and court time to the point that it is not worth it anymore. Maybe I should have sued, but I was scared of a backlash. I didn't ask to have IBS, I developed it from all…

40% is a more typical contingency fee. I totally understand being scared but I wish you had done more research on the risk to future jobs as well as how much it would’ve helped you financially, and helped other people at your former employer by providing them with a financial incentive to improve their practices.