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California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

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Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#91

Post by joelbluminator »

hh3k0 wrote: post #13
joelbluminator wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't sound likely. You will be able to settle tens of millions of refugees in Greenland, Siberia etc. Former frozen wasteland will become habitable. I don't think Europe or the U.S will volunteer to absorb tens of millions of refugees if there are other solutions.

> I don't think Europe or the U.S will volunteer to absorb tens of millions of refugees if there are other solutions. Who said anything about volunteering? Europe couldn't stop ~1 million people from entering in 2015, so what makes you think they can stop 50 to 100 times that number? > Greenland, Siberia etc. Former frozen wasteland will become habitable "Billions of Acres of Cropland Lie Within a New Frontier. So Do…

Europe didn't try to stop the Syrian refugees, it obviously has the political and military capabilities to settle people elsewhere. One million is manageable without Europe collapsing, 30-50 million is a different story. BTW Europe has already made a deal with Turkey to host millions of refugees there (on Turkish soil) so this is already happening. I think the political will to host more refugees, let alone tens of millions, is about zero in Europe.

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#92

Post by johnchristopher »

scrumbledober wrote: post #81
frazbin wrote: post #74

Real quick thing about the water in California: it's important because it is used to make food, which is exported from the state's central plains to the rest of the country. Your mental model should not include the direct water use of humans.. this is and always has been about the economics of food production. So if people leave California, it will be because they can't get jobs in agriculture.. people would be comin…

it's not just pistachios and almonds, it's a full 1/3 of the country's vegetables and 2/3 of the country's fruits and nuts. California's water problems are everyone's water problems.

In the most extreme scenario, can the US create new agricultural fields in other states, cutting down forests if needed ? The weather will change but surely the US will still have arable land enough to feed its citizens (even if they have to forget some kind of crops (pistachio, etc.) aside) ?

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#93

Post by [deleted] »

scrumbledober wrote: post #81
frazbin wrote: post #74

Real quick thing about the water in California: it's important because it is used to make food, which is exported from the state's central plains to the rest of the country. Your mental model should not include the direct water use of humans.. this is and always has been about the economics of food production. So if people leave California, it will be because they can't get jobs in agriculture.. people would be comin…

it's not just pistachios and almonds, it's a full 1/3 of the country's vegetables and 2/3 of the country's fruits and nuts. California's water problems are everyone's water problems.

[deleted]

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#94

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

epistasis wrote: post #44
eplanit wrote: post #11

These droughts were anticipated, but here in California preparing for climate change means preaching at others, and setting up a carbon exchange. Not a single new reservoir has been built since 1979. It's impossible to take California seriously about much of anything, but especially not regarding the environment: "In 1979, California’s population was a little more than 23 million. Today, it is more than 39 million. Y…

This isn't a very complete picture of what's going on with water in California. Even as population has almost doubled, and as agricultural output increases, we have decreased our water usage: https://www.ppic.org/publication/water-use-in-california/ There's a lot to be said for simply not wasting lots of water. If California stopped growing alfalfa, a low value product that is the largest agricultural use of water, w…

Does that include groundwater usage?

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#95

Post by danans »

robomartin wrote: post #66

One of the things that has puzzled me for a long time is how little thought we have applied over time towards designing and building better homes. Energy and water usage are two elements of this. Regarding water. Every time I wash my hands I wish that water went into a gray water tank instead of being wasted. This water, perhaps with some filtration (or maybe not [0]) could then be used for irrigation. The same is th…

> One of the things that has puzzled me for a long time is how little thought we have applied over time towards designing and building better homes.

We have thought a lot, but the reality is that the market, which we rely on to drive how things like houses are built, has shown that regardless of what they say, people ultimately value a 5th bathroom more than they value energy or water efficiency.

The only way to ensure broad efficiency is by raising building codes - which has happened a bit - but raising them to a level that actually can help mitigate climate change faces stiff resistance from the mass production building industry, whose business model is based on building disposable, inefficient housing, and the homebuyers who want both cheap and large homes.

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#96

Post by lazide »

johnchristopher wrote: post #92
scrumbledober wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's not just pistachios and almonds, it's a full 1/3 of the country's vegetables and 2/3 of the country's fruits and nuts. California's water problems are everyone's water problems.

In the most extreme scenario, can the US create new agricultural fields in other states, cutting down forests if needed ? The weather will change but surely the US will still have arable land enough to feed its citizens (even if they have to forget some kind of crops (pistachio, etc.) aside) ?

Yup. Or even just build a canal from the Pacific Northwest - which gets so much water they can’t use almost any of it, even damming everything they can - down south.

California has always gone through droughts, and the issue isn’t an actual lack of water (from a support of the population, or even support of agriculture in general). It’s the economics of it, what is cost effective where, and prioritization of what makes sense and what doesn’t- which is hard, and there are a lot of incumbents with iffy models (cities, counties, and farmers) that don’t want to adjust or be honest about any of this.

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#97

Post by jdavis703 »

avianlyric wrote: post #42
eplanit wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So 100% of reservoir loss is due to evaporation? In the analogy, filling the glasses before EBMUD turns the water off is like filling a reservoir during (even brief) rainy seasons.

Think you would a better leg to stand on if California’s reservoirs actually filled up during the year. As it stands California’s reservoirs never seem to fill completely anymore. Adding more reservoirs won’t help store extra water if it simply isn’t falling from the sky.

The Oroville dam was so full it was at risk of overtopping just a few years ago.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oroville_Dam

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#98

Post by throwaway894345 »

xeromal wrote: post #28
throwaway894345 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Our reservoirs are empty. Why would another reservoir help up? I’m not an expert, but presumably the reservoirs are empty because too many people were drawing on them (too much load per unit capacity). Increasing the reservoirs spreads the load across greater capacity. But in general California (and much of the rest of the country) needs to stop it’s unsustainable agriculture practices.

The problem is that California is the breadbasket for a ton of US goods. You're right, we need to stop but it's gonna be painful for a lot of industries.

What are the major agricultural commodities for which California is the breadbasket, and how many of those commodities could be sustainably grown elsewhere in the US and/or imported from abroad? Besides maybe almonds (which can presumably be easily imported), nothing springs to mind as predominately californian.

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#99

Post by huntertwo »

JohnJamesRambo wrote: post #54
newsyyswen wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered drip irrigation? It was designed with desert agriculture in mind. Shade can also make a big difference.

My garden has drip irrigation and looks like a burned mess unfortunately. I think it is just the effect of the hot dry air on the leaves.

You would need misters on a timer to up your relative humidity throughout the day. Drip irrigation can’t correct an oppressive VPD.

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#100

Post by Supermancho »

throwaway09223 wrote: post #52
avianlyric wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not only does the state not prepare, but thanks to the record-setting wildfires of the past decade, the amount of carbon and soot pumped into the air has probably offset any gains that had been made. They're really just stupid out here. This is a little unreasonable and just smacks of victim blaming. The way you write suggests the California has been deliberately setting their own wildfires, rather than just being…

Lifelong Californian here. We're not victims - that would imply some outside actor. In reality it's almost entirely our fault. The water shortages are not caused by climate change. They're entirely caused by our water policy. Specifically: Expanded crops in the central valley (which we should simply not grow) and failure to expand infrastructure to keep pace with development as noted above. Climate change is a factor…

> Lifelong Californian here. We're not victims - that would imply some outside actor. In reality it's almost entirely our fault.

You're responding to a post about wildfires. Your post doesn't make sense in context.

p.s. I was born, worked and lived in California for 40 years.

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