Earlier quoted context omitted.
And was what TikTok did positive impact?
You don't think bringing people joy is a positive impact?
Where has all the productivity gone?
91–100 of 219 posts
Re: Where has all the productivity gone?
#92There is a huge assumption here that productivity isn't increasing, which is false. Economic output per hour worked has been steadily increasing in every country since their respective industrial revolutions. When you go to the source tweet, it turns out that it's comparing the developed world to the developing world. Developing economies will always grow faster, but not necessarily efficiently, because there's more…
> There is a huge assumption here that productivity isn't increasing, which is false. Actually the assumption in the post is the exact opposite: that productivity has increased. The question it poses then is "so what do we have to show for it?".
It might also be things like higher quality food, varieties of food, yachts for the rich that most of us don't ever see, or things like that, things that are either consumed and don't accumulate wealth, or things that are relatively long lived and durable but not part of most people's lives because most of the gains have gone to the top 1%.
Other ideas: paper pushing services like handling unnecessarily large volumes of litigation just to run a business, which requires work and causes GDP to go up but doesn't produce actual products.
Re: Where has all the productivity gone?
#93This is an interesting and very important point in overall computing today as well - for the vast majority of use cases, many of the todays top patterns are actually not just a small improvement, but are worse. Keyboard shortcuts are usually (not always) faster than mouse/trackpad driven visual pointers. Many of the current UIs are resource hogs that slow things down by a lot. UI patterns have also gotten somewhat less usable - in many cases one cannot easily tell of a surface is clickable in iOS and Android.
Re: Where has all the productivity gone?
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
TikTok, Clubhouse and Robinhood have touched the lives of orders of magnitudes more people than Tesla or SpaceX. Tesla sold half a million cars last year. TikTok provided entertainment for a billion people.
I think there’s a disconnect in what we deem to be value. SpaceX has rapidly reduced the cost of lift to orbit (and shortly, revolutionizing global comms via StarLink). Tesla has forced an entire industry (light vehicles) to electrify by demonstrating very little compromise vs combustion vehicles while their stationary storage products are forcing thermal generators off the electrical grid (cannibalizing ancillary/fr…
Although it might be true that we're over-investing in a sort of ultra-sugary sort of consumer goods that are not healthy for society in the long term.
Re: Where has all the productivity gone?
#95For example, washing machines create a lot of extra leisure, because it makes humans productive. A washing-machine assisted human can was 100x as much clothing in a given minute of operation time. But I have no clue where such a productivity improvement would show up in the data.
Of course I can study things like 'how many hours do you spend maintaining your household', and you'd see that dropping decade after decade, despite living in ever larger homes with more functionality (and thus, a larger 'maintenance load'). That's productivity, and stand-alone it can be analysed and concluded as such.
But fitting that into the same productivity data as say, the construction of homes per worker in an elegant way? I don't know how you would do that.
Nor do I know how you account for completely different units across time and sectors. For example, how do we measure productivity of the pharmaceutical industry? Patents per person? Medicines launched? Number of lives saved by vaccines?
A GDP per worked hour is of course a great start. But it leaves a lot out, too. For example, technology that sequences a genome for a penny in a short timespan may indirectly lead to gdp growth, perhaps, but in and of itself that massive cheap boost to a researchers' insight into a genome will not show up as a direct boost to GDP, in fact the opposite.
Curious to understand from economists how such challenges are typically handled and what the data says.
Re: Where has all the productivity gone?
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
> this is something I saw inside a lot of companies, especially when they get sizable funding: they become simultaneously obsessed with hiring and process A lot of it just seems to be driven by strange attempts at optimization. For example, at my company, there was a lot of time spent on figuring out developer metrics (for all four of us on the team at its peak) and cost accountability. On the cost accountability sid…
Yeah this also sounds like part of the "MBA-ification" of business. I think a lot of this comes from a reasonable goal to have: if can find appropriate metrics which represent the work your company is doing, this should give you a reasonably objective way of measuring how different interventions move you closer to or farther from your goal. But I think the problem is that actually finding and implementing those metri…
Re: Where has all the productivity gone?
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
Everyone churning out Tiktok, Clubhouse, and Robinhood while we need more SpaceX and Teslas. I’m unsure how to tilt the equation so solving for hard (necessary) engineering is more profitable (or lower risk) than window dressing.
TikTok, Clubhouse and Robinhood have touched the lives of orders of magnitudes more people than Tesla or SpaceX. Tesla sold half a million cars last year. TikTok provided entertainment for a billion people.
most consumer apps are net negatives that sell digital dopamine hits and studies have shown make people more depressed the more they use them
Re: Where has all the productivity gone?
#98> The Great Dissipation. Yeah I was consulting for about 5 years and this is something I saw inside a lot of companies, especially when they get sizable funding: they become simultaneously obsessed with hiring and process, and very little real work gets done. To be honest, I think it might be an inevitability of the productivity boom. Thanks to technology and automation, it's possible for a single individual to accom…
Re: Where has all the productivity gone?
#99There is a huge assumption here that productivity isn't increasing, which is false. Economic output per hour worked has been steadily increasing in every country since their respective industrial revolutions. When you go to the source tweet, it turns out that it's comparing the developed world to the developing world. Developing economies will always grow faster, but not necessarily efficiently, because there's more…
> There is a huge assumption here that productivity isn't increasing, which is false. Actually the assumption in the post is the exact opposite: that productivity has increased. The question it poses then is "so what do we have to show for it?".
I'm definitely better off than my parents or grandparents. Hell, we have stories in our family where my uncles would shower at the communal bathhouse cause their home didn't have a bath nor hot water. Everyone used to wear hand-me-downs. We used to send cassette tapes to family abroad because international calls were so expensive. We flew every few years instead of multiple times a year. We saved up for CDs, and I literally never, ever went out for dinner to a restaurant (outside of a rare holiday) with my parents. My dad lost both parents as a child to old age, my grandfather worked 6, sometimes 7 days a week, my grandmother spent almost the entire day running the household (e.g. washing clothes by hand), they had no retirement and lived like that till death.
I'm often surprised about this idea we've got it worse off. The conversations usually revolve around housing, healthcare and college having become drastically more expensive. (although, never normalised for interest rates that dropped from 15% to 3%, homes that average 2x larger than 60 years ago with fewer people, life expectancy increasing by a decade since 1950 etc etc). Life isn't better in all respects, but on the whole I certainly wouldn't want to trade with past generations. And a lot of that boils down to productivity allowing new measures of wealth for many.
If we look at it on a worldwide scale, the difference is much, much more pronounced. Many lower income countries saw massive productivity improvements. We shouldn't forget that the past 3-4 decades have been all about globalising markets. Factory workers in the US now compete with those in China. IT staff the UK is competing with IT staff in India. Technology is relatively mobile and goes across borders easily. You cannot measure ceteris paribus productivity improvements in terms of gdp per capita in the west without correcting for increased competition abroad (e.g. in China). And in doing so, you will find that there's even bigger productivity increases in lower/middle income countries, too.
Re: Where has all the productivity gone?
#100If you can sell something at a higher prices, often that leads to 'greater productivity' when really it isn't.
So if consumers have more buying power, and we make the same amount and quality of stuff, but sell at lower prices, consumers are getting a better surplus i.e. 'consumer profit' ... then that's where productivity can 'disappear' to. Literally higher standard of living.
If we measured in some objective price - or - we just measured in terms of 'quality of things produced' we'd see that better.