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Harvey’s Casino Bomb

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Re: Harvey’s Casino Bomb

#91

Post by mumblemumble »

tyingq wrote: post #12

If you're confused by the description of two boxes and the picture of the single box, the picture is of the smaller box that was on top. The box on the bottom held the dynamite. From googling around a bit it wasn't exactly 1,000lbs of dynamite. It was 18 cases of Hercules Unigel dynamite, each case about 40lbs, so 720lbs. A tech-oriented rundown of the device: https://hackaday.com/2015/09/21/this-is-what-a-real-bomb-…

Interestingly, the ransom note made the same factual error, calling the explosive TNT instead of dynamite. "If exploded this bomb contains enough TNT to severely damage Harrahs across the street. This should give you some idea of the amount of TNT contained within this box. It is full of TNT."

(You can read the full thing at https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/news/stories/2009/august/a...)

That's part of why they tried decapitating the device with a shaped charge. TNT isn't as easy to set off as dynamite is. According to a different account I read, if it had, as advertised, been TNT (and there weren't a few loose sticks in the top), that plan would have had a decent chance of working.

Re: Harvey’s Casino Bomb

#92

Post by closewith »

GuB-42 wrote: post #68
55555 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see your point! I totally do. I also used to hold this belief. But then the Snowden revelations came out and it was revealed that probably 10,000 people in government were aware of a system that was sucking up all of our data for warrantless search and they had successfully kept the secret for something like 10 years (or more?). For sure it's true that a secret can be kept by three people if two of them are dead. B…

I think that Snowden leaks were more or less an open secret. I mean, it is about spies spying. Sure, the NSA overstepped its borders, but it is not exactly the first time (remember ECHELON), and the way it did that wasn't revolutionary. They didn't have a quantum computer, nanobots or anything like that: just competent computer security specialists and too much money to spend. Not even something significant like brea…

It absolutely wasn't common knowledge before Snowden. Even the suggestion would have put you firmly in the conspiracy theorist camp to most people.

Re: Harvey’s Casino Bomb

#93

Post by 1-more »

paulpauper wrote: post #70
1-more wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ransomware is also a better sort of arbitrage against the legal system. If you somehow got caught and prosecuted you didn't do a violent crime, so that has to probably help you somewhat. Of course you did do a federal crime so you have to serve 85% of your time no matter what.

Not at all. White collar criminals often serve longer than even violent criminals. Look at Bernie Maddof, Allen Stanford and others

I think we gotta take a step back and find something with some data; I offered pulled-from-my-ass conjecture and you countered with anecdotes. We gotta actually find a study or something of how much time people actually serve.

Re: Harvey’s Casino Bomb

#94

Post by paulpauper »

1-more wrote: post #93
paulpauper wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at all. White collar criminals often serve longer than even violent criminals. Look at Bernie Maddof, Allen Stanford and others

I think we gotta take a step back and find something with some data; I offered pulled-from-my-ass conjecture and you countered with anecdotes. We gotta actually find a study or something of how much time people actually serve.

page 835.. relevant info https://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article...

Re: Harvey’s Casino Bomb

#95

Post by moioci »

Apocryphon wrote: post #77
Ndymium wrote: post #14

In the end he was caught because his van was identified and because "One of his sons had revealed to his then-girlfriend that his father had placed a bomb in Harvey's." I always wonder at how criminals that otherwise might seem movie-like masterminds are caught as a result of mundane mistakes and outright stupid moves like this. You would think if you are going to bomb a place, the first thing would be to not talk ab…

That's how they got the Unabomber.

I would say that wasn't a slip-up, like getting a parking ticket or something. Several newspapers published his manifesto at his insistence, and his brother recognized his writing style.

Re: Harvey’s Casino Bomb

#96

Post by jefftk »

GuB-42 wrote: post #68
55555 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see your point! I totally do. I also used to hold this belief. But then the Snowden revelations came out and it was revealed that probably 10,000 people in government were aware of a system that was sucking up all of our data for warrantless search and they had successfully kept the secret for something like 10 years (or more?). For sure it's true that a secret can be kept by three people if two of them are dead. B…

I think that Snowden leaks were more or less an open secret. I mean, it is about spies spying. Sure, the NSA overstepped its borders, but it is not exactly the first time (remember ECHELON), and the way it did that wasn't revolutionary. They didn't have a quantum computer, nanobots or anything like that: just competent computer security specialists and too much money to spend. Not even something significant like brea…

I was working at Google when it came out, and that they were tapping our private inter-dc links was a huge update. Before I think it was something like "I guess the NSA could do that a bit, but it would be a prohibitively costly to do much" and then suddenly it was "we have to encrypt all of this as quickly as we can". There was a huge internal reprioritization.

(Speaking only for myself; I didn't work on any of this directly)

Re: Harvey’s Casino Bomb

#97

Post by jefftk »

SerLava wrote: post #88
55555 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see your point! I totally do. I also used to hold this belief. But then the Snowden revelations came out and it was revealed that probably 10,000 people in government were aware of a system that was sucking up all of our data for warrantless search and they had successfully kept the secret for something like 10 years (or more?). For sure it's true that a secret can be kept by three people if two of them are dead. B…

Actually we all knew the NSA was doing it, and what Snowden leaked was just the proof.

Who is "we all"?

(ex: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27989385)

Re: Harvey’s Casino Bomb

#98

Post by zhengyi13 »

jefftk wrote: post #96
GuB-42 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that Snowden leaks were more or less an open secret. I mean, it is about spies spying. Sure, the NSA overstepped its borders, but it is not exactly the first time (remember ECHELON), and the way it did that wasn't revolutionary. They didn't have a quantum computer, nanobots or anything like that: just competent computer security specialists and too much money to spend. Not even something significant like brea…

I was working at Google when it came out, and that they were tapping our private inter-dc links was a huge update. Before I think it was something like "I guess the NSA could do that a bit, but it would be a prohibitively costly to do much" and then suddenly it was "we have to encrypt all of this as quickly as we can". There was a huge internal reprioritization. (Speaking only for myself; I didn't work on any of this…

"Seriously, fuck these guys"

Re: Harvey’s Casino Bomb

#99

Post by tsycho »

JaggerFoo wrote: post #90

$3 Million vs cost to repair/rebuild casino with a five story crater - which was the better choice economically? They would've caught the guy eventually, so they may have been able to recover some of the ransom.

Fair point, but the other part of the game theory equation is deterrence - by paying the ransom, you might encourage others to copy the crime, even if many of them get eventually caught.

Re: Harvey’s Casino Bomb

#100

Post by bombcar »

JaggerFoo wrote: post #90

$3 Million vs cost to repair/rebuild casino with a five story crater - which was the better choice economically? They would've caught the guy eventually, so they may have been able to recover some of the ransom.

Word gets out you paid a $3m ransom for a bomb and bombs start appearing everywhere.
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