Live data from Hacker News

Farmers always worked from home

piszek.com

91–100 of 180 posts

Re: Farmers always worked from home

#91
post #81
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Entitlements" is a strange word for this. The fact is, that farming dairy, cattle, and produce pays so little through the primary market that those people would starve if not for government subsidies. The people who literally prevent every other person on the continent from starving. Farming is hard and pays little.

Well if the subsidies stopped and some farmers quit, then the producers would have to pay more. And farmers would return. I don’t get this constant subsidies to farmers everywhere. We take your taxes and shove it to farmers so you can have cheap corn and get fat. Maybe if some products werent so heavily subsidiest farmers would other, better food.

There's a strategic advantage for a country to grow your own produce. You drop all subsidies, it's likely that you can't compete with country XYZ and now suddenly one of the most important thing for your citizen has to be imported instead of being produced locally. This has lots of side effects and of course you are more at the mercy of international supply chain problems (COVID!) which cause shortage, high cost, etc. Running out of food is a really bad situation to be in. This isn't as easy as "supply and demand" to fix the market as other industries.

I'm more familiar with Philippines, but they turn out to have a very poor local farming industry. You go to the grocery store, majority is imported from abroad. We are talking of a country with 110M population. Makes food expensive, and lots of people are not exactly rich over there (on top of the issue of having country side people not having jobs)

Re: Farmers always worked from home

#92

This whole article reads like someone out of touch. We went to the countryside to observe the pastoral lifestyle! Hey look at these farmers! They're "working from home" all the time! Wow look at them milking cows! Farming is a hell of a lot of work and they have a poor "work life balance" out of necessity. There's too much to do. Maybe they find it rewarding, but I don't think it's an ideal everyone should be strivin…

There's no mention of all the government assistance in terms of loans, infrastructure, subsidies, welfare programs for employee healthcare and retirement, etc. Maybe if other industries had as many entitlements they would make fodder for disillusioned urban bloggers as well.

May be an unpopular opinion, but I'm all for my taxes helping us not starve to death.

Re: Farmers always worked from home

#93
post #72
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you have less then 10% of US population being slaves from? I found 18 percent of the total population in 1790, or roughly one in every six people. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1010169/black-and-slave-... And based on what I know, it then went up due to cotton boom.

You're correct that it seems to have peaked around 18%, but mostly hovered between 10-18%. It sat around 15% during the civil war. Note that these numbers do not include native Americans, who constituted between 1-3 million themselves, since the census didn't count them. Considering them as part of the total should indeed bring the numbers under 10%. Whether that is fair or not is up to the reader :) I still maintain…

It does not seem to me that Native Americans should count here. Whole discussion completely ignores them in all aspects. The debates are about Americans, it would be like counting Mexico into stats.

> I still maintain that the majority of the people working on farms were most likely white. This is especially true since many states did not have slaves at all. I will admit that it is likely, that the most gruelling work on the field was given to the slaves.

You have to split it to free states and slave states. Free states have no slaves no matter how grueling work. Slave states have split between slave work, feeman work and white people work, where white people would not do slave work due to it being considered shameful.

You have also industrial development going on in exactly this time - and decline of subsistence farming along with it.

Re: Farmers always worked from home

#94
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This fantasy needs to die. When pre-industrial farmers were not in the fields all day they were not idle. They were doing tedious low intensity tasks all day instead of doing laborious tasks all day. A large part of the purpose of Sunday being a day of rest in protestant religions is that if you don't convince people there will be literal hell to pay for not taking a day off they won't take a regular day off and they…

> And it's not like your wife gets to share the labor since she has her hands full with feeding and clothing the family. At least in here, a lot of animal care was traditionally done by women. So did quite a lot of field work - a lot of it does not require that much physical strength. And clothing is quite serious time consuming work, really. The amount of time required to make the fabric is quite huge.

Plus laundry. The invention of the washing machine is literally one of the things that allowed women to get jobs outside the house.

Re: Farmers always worked from home

#95
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. As a remote software engineer, I empathize with folks who haven’t optimized for their home to be their day-to-day. I couldn’t imagine spendings lockdown in an SF Apartment. I spent lockdown in a 3k sq. foot home. I have a floating desk and a panasonic toughbook (CF-31), spend my days floating in my pool writing code. A similar QoL as before lockdown. Not everyone’s lockdown experience was the same. Lockdown QoL…

Personally I don't find wide sq. footage to be super necessary. My unit is less than a third of your space, and even then on a day-to-day basis I really only use half of that (home office, living room, kitchen). I grew up in a giant house and spent most of my time in my bedroom / living room. I will admit it helps to have a nice view and peace and quiet.

To each their own and different lifestyles of course.

We have two children and use every sq. ft. So much so that I had to convert our spare garage to an office, which isn’t included in the sq.ft. (pool isn’t viable year round!)

Re: Farmers always worked from home

#96
Supply and demand. We're not running out of dirt and not running out of water (east of the mississippi) or running out of farm labor. So if your farmer neighbor works 7x10 and you work 6x8 you are going out of business.

Side job makes it better for individuals and worse for the community. My great uncle gentleman-farmed 40 or so acres of sweet corn and had a roadside stand on the major road he lived on. But the gas stations he owned paid the real bills. Meanwhile his neighbor corn farmers had to compete (on a small scale) with a guy who doesn't need to make money and thinks restoring tractors is a hobby (so he needs something for the tractors to do after he fixes them up, next thing you know he has 40 acres of corn planted...) Luckily his competitor neighbors had a lot more than 40 acres or he'd have put them out of business.

Any low barrier of entry, high supply low demand job is going to be very rough on the employees. Imagine being a supermarket cashier, which is bad enough, but also having to put up money to buy and stock the store before even being allowed to labor there. Meanwhile the guy down the street is doing it as a hobby off second mortgages or other employment to pay the bills. So that's farming.

The cost of food is high because of innumerable layers of middlemen, also lots of "value added" processing. Corn runs around 10 cents per liter (weird measurement system but whatever). Corn flakes cost a supermarket consumer a couple bucks per liter. The farmers get pennies on the dollar at most. That's why they're motivated to "do all that work for free" when selling direct to customers in CSAs or farmers markets. It must be heartbreaking to see three corn ears saran-wrapped at a food store for $1.50 and know as a farmer you only got a penny from that to pay all your bills, which probably near approach the penny earned. So selling ears at the "hipster farmers market" is a good deal at a quarter per ear. On the other hand if you "invested" four hours loading the trucks and driving and 8 hours sitting there, its easy to go broke on an amazing profit margin if it rains on the farm market that day so people stay home.

Anyway, aside from heartbreaking stories about family farms, we simply have too many farmers, so they're working for miserable pay under miserable conditions, mostly. Biggest scam ever by corporate PR is pushing the loss of the family farm story to keep the WAY too many middlemen story out of the news.

Re: Farmers always worked from home

#97

This whole article reads like someone out of touch. We went to the countryside to observe the pastoral lifestyle! Hey look at these farmers! They're "working from home" all the time! Wow look at them milking cows! Farming is a hell of a lot of work and they have a poor "work life balance" out of necessity. There's too much to do. Maybe they find it rewarding, but I don't think it's an ideal everyone should be strivin…

farming is super time consuming. The first farmers probably reminisced about hunter gatherers and how they only spent a fraction of their time working. Which was true, but unless they were in a great location starvation was always decent chance too.

Re: Farmers always worked from home

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. As a remote software engineer, I empathize with folks who haven’t optimized for their home to be their day-to-day. I couldn’t imagine spendings lockdown in an SF Apartment. I spent lockdown in a 3k sq. foot home. I have a floating desk and a panasonic toughbook (CF-31), spend my days floating in my pool writing code. A similar QoL as before lockdown. Not everyone’s lockdown experience was the same. Lockdown QoL…

A floating desk? Sounds cool of course, but doesn’t the movement distract?

You’d think! But I adjusted surprisingly quick. I’m not sure there is a “trick” to it as much as the brain just adapts and you forget you’re looking at a moving screen.

Re: Farmers always worked from home

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A farmer on Hacker News? Please tell me more.

I'm sure you didn't mean to cause offense, but this comment is so incredibly frustrating and highlights the incredible ignorance and stereotyping of rural America that's still common. My reaction to this comment was to shudder the same way as if someone had said "A black person on hacker news? Please tell me more" Modern farmers are polyglot technologists. Hybrid GMO seeds are selected to optimize yield in their spec…

>"are likely leveraging far more real science and tech than a group of web developers in the bay discussing the latest updates to React."

+1000.

For some of those their sense of entitlement to be an "expert" in unrelated field outstrips the actual capacity.

Re: Farmers always worked from home

#100

This whole article reads like someone out of touch. We went to the countryside to observe the pastoral lifestyle! Hey look at these farmers! They're "working from home" all the time! Wow look at them milking cows! Farming is a hell of a lot of work and they have a poor "work life balance" out of necessity. There's too much to do. Maybe they find it rewarding, but I don't think it's an ideal everyone should be strivin…

> This whole article reads like someone out of touch. We went to the countryside to observe the pastoral lifestyle! Hey look at these farmers! They're "working from home" all the time! Wow look at them milking cows!

(Author here) Fair criticism! We own the house for 30 years and I grew up with this farmer. He is trying to get out of farming, and for good reason. It's just damn hard!

But it has it's perks. Mainly not debating yet another JavaScript framework.

Post reply on HN