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Despite Tuesday’s flight, Jeff Bezos is running out of time to save Blue Origin

arstechnica.com

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Re: Despite Tuesday’s flight, Jeff Bezos is running out of time to save Blue Origin

#91

Post by dcow »

mnowicki wrote: post #83
dcow wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious, has Bezos engaged in behavior indicative of an actual narcissist. Or have there been reports from people close to him? Or is your assessment mostly a projection of Amazon back onto him? I know a few people who actually have narcissistic personality disorder but I don't know Bezos at all.

I'm guessing based on his business practices and attitude in interviews/statements. I don't claim to be an expert though, that's why I qualified my post stating that's it's purely my speculation, just like the authors post

Fair. Do you have any examples or links to the offending remarks or practices? I’m trying to build up my own profile in order to understand the negative responses to the blue origin flight.

Re: Despite Tuesday’s flight, Jeff Bezos is running out of time to save Blue Origin

#92

Post by autokad »

deegles wrote: post #76
bberenberg wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say the quote is probably a poor choice of words. It's not saying the flight itself advances anything. It's saying that having another group of people working on space tech is competitive, and competition drives advancement.

> competition drives advancement Is this always true though? Space tech is highly specialized, if you can't hire enough people already, more competition just spreads the available talent thinner. I'd be curious if it's currently the case that SpaceX/NASA/BO's development is personnel constrained. I've definitely heard of projects at FAANG companies being cancelled because they couldn't hire enough people for them, so…

> "Space tech is highly specialized, if you can't hire enough people already, more competition just spreads the available talent thinner."

Try to avoid 0 sum thinking, its often wrong. increased competition for talent in space will drive up wages which will result in more people going into said fields.

Re: Despite Tuesday’s flight, Jeff Bezos is running out of time to save Blue Origin

#93

Post by [deleted] »

dcow wrote: post #71
mnowicki wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just my own speculation, equally as invalid as the authors, but at most I'd say Bezos thinks his goals are entirely genuine, but it's entirely based on narcissism and wanting to be the only one smart/powerful enough to save us. If it came to the point where he had to sacrifice things he actually cares about to help others with no benefit to himself or his ego I would bet Bezos net worth that he wouldn't lift…

Just curious, has Bezos engaged in behavior indicative of an actual narcissist. Or have there been reports from people close to him? Or is your assessment mostly a projection of Amazon back onto him? I know a few people who actually have narcissistic personality disorder but I don't know Bezos at all.

[deleted]

Re: Despite Tuesday’s flight, Jeff Bezos is running out of time to save Blue Origin

#94

Post by jjulius »

autokad wrote: post #90
cwkoss wrote: post #61

> Neither side is necessarily wrong. It is reasonable to both be uncomfortable with Bezos' extreme wealth and what that means for society but also recognize that Blue Origin has advanced spaceflight. How did a brief amusement ride into sub-orbital space advance spaceflight? To reach orbit, you need to go one part up and four parts sideways. This flight was only the vertical component - essentially just 20% of the min…

> "Neither side is necessarily wrong." Yes, being greedy, envious, and jealous of other peoples use of material goods is wrong. Its time we start calling it out. That doesn't make you progressive, it's a poor behavior attribute and you should not partake in it. As far is 'how did it advance spaceflight'. its called progress. 20% is better than 0%. Maybe next time they will be 40%.

>As far is 'how did it advance spaceflight'. its called progress. 20% is better than 0%. Maybe next time they will be 40%.

"Progress" is doing something we have collectively already been able to do, and then some, for decades?

Re: Despite Tuesday’s flight, Jeff Bezos is running out of time to save Blue Origin

#95

Post by Google234 »

comprambler wrote: post #40
drawkbox wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jeff Bezos flying with his brother Mark on the first manned flight of Blue Origin is the ultimate dogfooding event. Surprised people are so against it, it is an iterative step and was massively risky but proves out the technology. Blue Origin will be a formidable competitor and working with ULA, JPL and NASA will be great for the space industry and new perspectives on sustainability on Earth. ULA will be launching Am…

ULA has contracted Blue Origin for their BE-4 engine to power their Vulcan. Future heavy lift launches will fund Blue Origin for a bit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BE-4

And Blue Origin has forced ULA to fall back to using Russian rockets engines because their engine hasn’t been finished yet. ULA probably regrets using BE now.

Re: Despite Tuesday’s flight, Jeff Bezos is running out of time to save Blue Origin

#96

Post by PaulHoule »

dtagames wrote: post #72
PaulHoule wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about the money. It's about mental focus. Elon Musk is "all in" on making mankind an interplanetary species. He is not cruising around the world on a yacht but holing up in a cheap house in Texas. He went at an "impossible" goal by finding specific markets for launch services and satisfying them with Dragon. Starship is a bit ahead of the market, but the success with Dragon bodes well. Looking at the big pic…

The goal of making man an "interplanetary species" comes from religion, specifically the religion of Transhumanism to which both Bezos and Musk subscribe. There is nothing in our history or present day evolution that would suggest people can or should live on other planets. Absolutely nothing. We are not even remotely close to such a "goal" when today people live barely below the threshold of space (LEO) and not in s…

I would go back to Gerard K O'Neill who didn't indulge in the full-fledged transhumanism of Timothy Leary, et al. (e.g. if you're grown-up you don't need personal immortality)

I think Mars is for the birds, cutting up a carbonaceous or wet asteroid to construct a solar-sail factory that can deliver sunshades to earth-sun L1 is a more interesting project. Something halfway to Niven's ringworld seems like a possible endpoint. (see https://arxiv.org/abs/2011.07487)

As I see it the problems are half chemical engineering, half "building a ship outside a bottle from the inside of the bottle" and half "what do you do with the gas before you take the asteroid apart?"

You might wind up with a structure that can hold a few trillion people, but you start with maybe 40 hardcore Zeons and a few million eggs because I don't see how you build and operate the factory or the factory factory with a 20 minute time delay.

Re: Despite Tuesday’s flight, Jeff Bezos is running out of time to save Blue Origin

#97

Post by dundarious »

dcow wrote: post #91
mnowicki wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing based on his business practices and attitude in interviews/statements. I don't claim to be an expert though, that's why I qualified my post stating that's it's purely my speculation, just like the authors post

Fair. Do you have any examples or links to the offending remarks or practices? I’m trying to build up my own profile in order to understand the negative responses to the blue origin flight.

It was reported that Bezos himself was behind the failed pushback online by Amazon "ambassadors" to the peeing in bottles story. Replying "You don't really think people are peeing in bottles, do you?" and then finding internal Amazon documents proving management awareness of people peeing in bottles was certainly a poor decision, and seemingly influenced by Bezos' pride and ego more than reason.

And it's not as attributable to Bezos, but Amazon is famous in journalism for asking for numerous "corrections" to articles about them, when those supposed corrections are actually just unrelated talking points and PR spin.

Re: Despite Tuesday’s flight, Jeff Bezos is running out of time to save Blue Origin

#98

Post by elcombato »

losvedir wrote: post #65

Something I don't understand about the criticisms of the launch is that the rocket landed back on a platform. This was something SpaceX was (entirely justifiably) lauded for. Is it just old hat now? Or is the SpaceX version of it more technically challenging in some way?

I think it’s due to the substantial difference between New Shepard and Falcon 9. New Shepard has a much lower payload capability and is not able to go orbital. Therefore the landing of the Falcon 9 booster is a significantly greater challenge than the landing of New Shepard.

Re: Despite Tuesday’s flight, Jeff Bezos is running out of time to save Blue Origin

#99

Post by bob33212 »

laurowyn wrote: post #9

Has he some how gone bankrupt? I can't help but feel if he wants to keep Blue Origin running, he could use a handful of the cash he has laying around one of his mansions. or one of his yachts. or his Texas launch complex. Pretty sure he could bank roll Blue Origin for decades without seeing any significant hit to his personal wealth.

I know someone that refuses to shutdown his startup. He loses 500-900k/year on it with no end in sight. His other company makes 3M/year. So he can go on for quite a while.

Re: Despite Tuesday’s flight, Jeff Bezos is running out of time to save Blue Origin

#100

Post by dundarious »

caymanjim wrote: post #68
WalterBright wrote: post #27

> The problem is that by beginning his company with a focus on space tourism and flying on the very first mission himself, Bezos only plays into the hands of critics. I'd frame it as Bezos demonstrated supreme confidence in the rocket by being personally on the first manned flight.

Starting off by catering to a tiny, rich elite in order to drum up excitement isn't a bad idea. Look at Tesla: they started with a $100k+ sportster model to create buzz, dispel myths about electric car performance, make it look sexy instead of focusing on environment benefits and cost-per-mile efficiencies. That generated revenue--and, more importantly--free advertising and buzz. Then they started making more afforda…

Musk was not the founder of Tesla nor the originator of the Roadster-buzz business model, but point taken.
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