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Google parts with Cloud VP over his manifesto renouncing his antisemitism

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Re: Google parts with Cloud VP over his manifesto renouncing his antisemitism

#91

Awadallah will land on his feet, but what signal does this send to other holders of hateful ideologies? To me, the signal is: “You can’t change. Not really. If you ever held a heterodox view, ever expressed that view in any medium at any time in you life, or were caught in our surveillance capitalist nightmare systems doing so, you’re dead to us.” How does that inspire anyone to change their view?

American has the fallen hero rebirth meme. It doesn't mean you get to stay where you were though and it requires a bunch of hard work and positive PR to get out of.

Has Mel Gibson recovered?

Re: Google parts with Cloud VP over his manifesto renouncing his antisemitism

#92
post #31

"When you surround an army, leave an outlet free. Do not press a desperate foe too hard." -Sun Tzu You should allow your opposition to at least believe they have an alternative to digging in and fighting you to the bitter end. Even if you have no intention of allowing them to escape or surrender, you should let them believe it's still possible.

When you surround an anthill, you can just stomp on it, though. Corporate political correctness is built on the perceived certainty of being so far on the winning side of history that any other point of view isn't worth considering.

I think I'm confused here.

I don't mean to be pedantic, but stomping an anthill wouldn't be 'winning' you would be pressed into your own retreat pretty quickly.

I believe the quote holds true, leave an out they will retreat or at least try. Cutoff all egress and it's a fight to the death.

Or was that what you were saying and I misunderstood? Or was I just wrong on all accounts?

Re: Google parts with Cloud VP over his manifesto renouncing his antisemitism

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't see it that way at all. Maybe because my home country has border issues and we've dealt with otherization from a young age. Certainly, nothing like the conflict he refers to, but I guess I have some personal context. I see someone who was genuinely baffled at the thought that there are good people of a particular ethnicity, when he was brainwashed completely to the opposite. The point about the 0.1% DNA is a…

Obviously everyone is free to read and interpret something however they wish. But to your point: > I see someone who was genuinely baffled at the thought that there are good people of a particular ethnicity, when he was brainwashed completely to the opposite. As I think I said at the top of my comment, if he had stopped there, I don't think there would have been as much hay to make (though that's an unknowable). Pers…

>But the problem that I have with the piece is really the rest of it - I think it's a little patronizing, I think using 23andme data to justify your positions is problematic, and I think paragraph after paragraph you see someone expounding at length on their ideas about very complex subjects, subjects that are near and dear to people's identities and politics. It's not a dialogue, it's not a jumping off point for a discussion, it's just a polemic.

The author is deeply involved in this complex subject and discussion. They have more than a good reason to have an opinion on it, and express it. I don't want to get into his tone/wording. I'm going to give him a wide pass just because its probably not his first language, and also because those types of things are highly culture-specific.

> That's not great leadership, that's not listening to the team, that's not navigating a complex situation with grace. He didn't have to just fall on his sword and apoloogize, but as a VP you have to at least be thoughtful about how you handle these situations.

Sure, a more street-smart/savvy person would probably do things differently. But fundamentally, I think that people don't have a right to not be offended. For e.g. I don't like the idea of people calling something offensive - like say the drawing of a certain prophet - and forcing others to accept their view. Its strictly a case-by-case thing. I'd want to know exactly what was so offensive. Maybe from a purely business perspective, Google did the right thing, but from a social discourse / wide-tent-philosophy standpoint I think it is disappointing.

Anyway, I appreciate you writing out your reply, and I don't really want to argue with you or change your opinion or anything, but just like how we can respectfully co-exist on HN, it should be possible to do so within a company too. Maybe I'm placing too much faith in a random person who I had not even heard of before this article ! :) I guess I just believe that people can still have integrity even when we disagree with them.

Re: Google parts with Cloud VP over his manifesto renouncing his antisemitism

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except being racist is bad and being gay isn't.

This is just our current social construction. There was a time right-here in the US when those were reversed. And there are societies right now where those are reversed.

And those societies are wrong.

Re: Google parts with Cloud VP over his manifesto renouncing his antisemitism

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except being racist is bad and being gay isn't.

This is just our current social construction. There was a time right-here in the US when those were reversed. And there are societies right now where those are reversed.

So? That doesn't change the fact that being gay is okay and being racist is bad. The obvious connotation of the post was that "don't ask, don't tell for racism" is bad in the same way that it was bad for homosexuality in the military - but there is obviously no comparison between being gay and being a racist.

Re: Google parts with Cloud VP over his manifesto renouncing his antisemitism

#96

This is the type of change we need to celebrate in people not further scrutinize! As a Jew I would love to create dialogue with a person who realized the past hate was unjust, to hear why the hate existed and more importantly to understand what opened their eyes. It is that process that will help eliminate hate across the board. Today as a society we approach discrimination through censorship and cancel culture which…

> As a Jew I would love to create dialogue with a person who realized the past hate was unjust, to hear why the hate existed and more importantly to understand what opened their eyes.

There were opportunities for this to happen with this person. They did not go great.

Re: Google parts with Cloud VP over his manifesto renouncing his antisemitism

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may not be wrong (to your point, no one knows), but is such a cynical approach beneficial?

It's cynical to support the firing of an executive that admits to the worst sort of extreme racism publicly as a misguided attempt to build his own brand? Lol

It's about the best option I can think of to preserve one's brand if it is about to be made public that you are antisemitic.

Re: Google parts with Cloud VP over his manifesto renouncing his antisemitism

#98
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you surround an anthill, you can just stomp on it, though. Corporate political correctness is built on the perceived certainty of being so far on the winning side of history that any other point of view isn't worth considering.

I think I'm confused here. I don't mean to be pedantic, but stomping an anthill wouldn't be 'winning' you would be pressed into your own retreat pretty quickly. I believe the quote holds true, leave an out they will retreat or at least try. Cutoff all egress and it's a fight to the death. Or was that what you were saying and I misunderstood? Or was I just wrong on all accounts?

Nah, I just had a bad day for metaphors. What I was getting at was that in corporate-conscience situations, the corporation doesn't perceive itself as even being in a battle; if they did, they wouldn't get involved, because it would be bad for business.

Re: Google parts with Cloud VP over his manifesto renouncing his antisemitism

#99
post #32

Like many large organizations, Google condone controversial material expressions of individualism, without approval by PR/legal/HR (which are granted only when it benefits the organization, and typically with carefully sanitized scripts). At Google, this has been true for 15+ years and is not new. If you look at the top brass at any large org, they all subjugate their individualism to focus on reinforcing carefully c…

Typo: doesn't condone

Re: Google parts with Cloud VP over his manifesto renouncing his antisemitism

#100
post #5

As awkward is his note was, this is a public admission that he had bigoted views and grew and is still trying to grow out of them. I wish I was a fly on the wall at Google to understand why that's not acceptable. Growing and learning is necessary and the only hope.

Maybe Google is taking the view that anything even remotely controversial which could cause someone to look negatively upon the company, is a cancer that must be removed immediately.

Except Kamau Bobb, who was simply removed from Doing diversity activities at Google but still employed here.
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