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India bans MasterCard from adding new customers

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Re: India bans MasterCard from adding new customers

#91

Post by Shorel »

herbst wrote: post #43
thayne wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what that has to do with this. There could be laws requiring that the data be kept secure and private without specifying that it has to be kept in a certain location. Besides which, India doesn't have a good track record of protecting privacy either.

True, but if it's not hosted under your own control it basically is fully out of your control. Doesn't the US gov / the 3 letter agencies basically have access to everything hosted within the US? Sure there are other ways, but India seems to like to go for the most radical solutions at times

They also seem to have access to everything that goes through the submarine cables near their shores.

So data is spied on just by being routed near them, it is not needed for them to be the destination.

Re: India bans MasterCard from adding new customers

#92

Post by ko27 »

kspacewalk2 wrote: post #78
ko27 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd much rather store properly encrypted personal information or financial data in North Korea than storing it unencrypted in my home country That encryption is pointlesss. North Korea can just demand the key and decrypt your data (assuming the company has presence in that country). Very few services have true end to end encryption. Currently it's not even feasible for healthcare data (homomorphic encryption is not…

North Korea can demand what it wants. I'm not in North Korea. For North Koreans, all encryption is indeed pointless if the goal is to hide it from the government, regardless of where they want to store data, for this very reason. I can implement true end-to-end encryption in about 30 minutes (only because I gotta look up where I implemented it last). I will encrypt my data using well known and validated libraries, se…

You are moving the goal posts. Of course simple data storage can be made secure, because you have the key. But the article is talking about financial data that is processed by companies. And you mentioned healthcare data, which would also be processed. The companies have the key and they can be forced to hand it over easily.

What use is end to end encryption for your healthcare data, if nobody except you can process that data? In that case, why don't you just put it on some external hard drive?

Re: India bans MasterCard from adding new customers

#93

Post by ramshanker »

Let us not forget, rules were formulated in 2018. Planned to be implemented by Dec 2018. Companies kept requesting extension of deadline. Finally RBI had enough. They have been given substantial time. At this point, non-compliance simply means un-willingness. Whether for political or technical reason.

It is not a surprise-everyone move. Indian central bank is following consistent long term policy. I feel overall it is good.

Re: India bans MasterCard from adding new customers

#94

Post by Shorel »

thayne wrote: post #37
asaddhamani wrote: post #25

Data from Indian transactions should be stored and ideally even processed in India. This seems fair and reasonable to me.

You think it is fair for companies to be required to run servers in every country they operate in? That seems pretty wasteful and inefficient to me.

If it was wasteful, then there would be no CDNs like Akamai and Cloudflare.

And Netflix would not have data centers in virtually every ISP in the world.

Ohh poor Netflix, the bandwidth costs are so unfair to them!

Re: India bans MasterCard from adding new customers

#95

Post by qwytw »

rfd4sgmk8u wrote: post #44
ncallaway wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How about just avoiding wars? Countries simply do not have the unilateral ability to avoid wars.

The easiest way to prevent war is to make it uneconomical -- like it was in the past. War should bankrupt a country. Years long fighting like we saw in the 20th century is a product of loose monetary policy. When a country can print itself out of debt (or more accurately, kick the can down the road for the next generation), war is inevitable. If we remove the ability to do this, a prolonged war becomes far less likel…

Have you heard about the 100, 70 and 30 years wars? The massive death toll and destruction in the world wars was largely a result of much more effective military technology. There was simply no way to kill as much people and destroy as much property in such a short time frame in any preceding wars.

And I don't really see what a loose monetary policy could have anything to do with this. Before the 20th century countries rarely had the means to mobilize their economies by directing most of the output to the war effort, they had no capacity to enforce this and in any case there wasn't enough surplus produced to a wage total war without everyone starving to death and/or the central government collapsing.

Re: India bans MasterCard from adding new customers

#96

Post by qwytw »

DesiLurker wrote: post #48
seunosewa wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about just avoiding wars? Global interdependence of countries is beneficial for this reason. Also, India's military is no match for and unlikely to have any reason to fight the external countries where MasterCard's data is likely to be stored (US, UK, etc).

>How about just avoiding wars? that's a silly remark. are you suggesting that countries can simply avoid wars and accept the consequences just because some credit cards will stop working ? edit: formatting

Yes, if they believe that the cost of waging the war would outweigh anything that they might gain even if they win it. Why would any two countries wage a war against each other if their governments knew that both countries economies (and most of their capacity to produce military material) would immediately collapse?

Re: India bans MasterCard from adding new customers

#97

Post by rfd4sgmk8u »

qwytw wrote: post #95
rfd4sgmk8u wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The easiest way to prevent war is to make it uneconomical -- like it was in the past. War should bankrupt a country. Years long fighting like we saw in the 20th century is a product of loose monetary policy. When a country can print itself out of debt (or more accurately, kick the can down the road for the next generation), war is inevitable. If we remove the ability to do this, a prolonged war becomes far less likel…

Have you heard about the 100, 70 and 30 years wars? The massive death toll and destruction in the world wars was largely a result of much more effective military technology. There was simply no way to kill as much people and destroy as much property in such a short time frame in any preceding wars. And I don't really see what a loose monetary policy could have anything to do with this. Before the 20th century countri…

I am advocating hard monetary policy (ala a gold standard, a bitcoin standard) as a method for disincentivizing war.

When you cannot replace the capital spent on war via inflation, war is less likely to occur. I acknowledge this is a fringe philosophy, but time will tell.

Re: India bans MasterCard from adding new customers

#98

Post by xNeil »

eklavya wrote: post #54
pavs wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have been "growing" and "becoming" the next world leader for a while now. Anyone who have lived in india long enough will tell you how far from the truth this is. The only Stick India has, besides their nuclear arsenal, is the size of their domestic market (aka population). I dont think the purchasing power of their domestic market is that lucrative compare to actual superpowers (Economic or Military). Buy just…

Yeah Modi is pretty anti international investment, just look here since he got into power FDI has dropped in India by almost -100% https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/IND/india/foreign-dire... Also all the PLI schemes for companies are pretty anti international investment, so companies from Samsung to Apple are all investing big.

FDI in India was $35 Billion when Modi came to power, and is >$50 Billion today. Are you being sarcastic?

Re: India bans MasterCard from adding new customers

#99

Post by xNeil »

m0llusk wrote: post #65
eklavya wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah Modi is pretty anti international investment, just look here since he got into power FDI has dropped in India by almost -100% https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/IND/india/foreign-dire... Also all the PLI schemes for companies are pretty anti international investment, so companies from Samsung to Apple are all investing big.

There are a lot of factors involved with all of that. I would argue that what has happened is that Modi's policies, even ones that might seem reasonable at the start like reforming the currency, have as executed ended up creating enormous difficulties for business in India and that investment has dropped primarily as a result of Indian business struggling amid their current circumstances.

Demonetization in 2016 turned out to be a horrible move, that backfired a bit, although I supported it when it came out.

GST implementation has been quite successful, FDI has increased since Modi came to power. The pandemic, of course, has been pretty bad, with the GDP contracting 8% in 2020.

Re: India bans MasterCard from adding new customers

#100

Post by argomo »

kspacewalk2 wrote: post #28

The obsession with where data physically sits at rest is so amusing to me. Not limited to overzealous governments and financial data; healthcare is singularly obsessed with this. It makes no sense whatsoever, of course. I'd much rather store properly encrypted personal information or financial data in North Korea than storing it unencrypted in my home country. I would understand if they demanded both storage and proc…

> I'd much rather store properly encrypted personal information or financial data in North Korea than storing it unencrypted in my home country.

You might feel comfortable with that as an individual, but geopolitically speaking, India would be giving North Korea a pretty bargaining chip by letting payment processors store their data there (if they were so inclined). Imagine the havoc that could be caused! By requiring data residency, it is instead India who gets a pretty bargaining chip against these huge multi-national corporations.

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