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Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

polygon.com

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Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#91

Post by krapp »

rubyn00bie wrote: post #63

Oh, I thought this was known. I'm not even joking... A few years ago, I was at a local comic shop, and I watched someone (a kid) play the machine and appear to get a "perfect" shot, key went exactly into the fucking hole... but then it just pulled back. No prize! I was stunned when the kid asked an employee essentially "WTF?" and the employee replied "there's a chance the key may not turn even though it's lined up."…

It's not even luck. IIRC, most such machines are programmed not to pay out at all until they've taken in more revenue than the cost of a prize. So 99% of the time, your chances are nil, as opposed to infinitesimally nil.

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#92

Post by jtsuken »

Gambling should be a compulsory subject in primary school.

By the time they reach high school:

- Every kid should know how to play blackjack and poker.

- Every kid must know how to compute the odds of winning.

- Every kid should know how to verify the odds presented to them.

- Every kid should know at least three ways of cheating and being cheated

This might make the earth population a bit more resistant to panic and overreaction in times of uncertainty. Hopefully, fewer people will drink chlorine, stockpile toilet paper, participate in ponzi schemes, go to a real war against a fictitious enemy.

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#93

Post by userbinator »

and the conversion kit (which “allows an operator of a Key Master game to convert the game” to a skill-based one)

I wonder what the "conversion kit" contains, since any one with a software background probably knows that it may take nothing more than patching out a single "don't let player win yet" conditional jump in the software/firmware. Indeed, the code skill-based game would be simpler from that perspective, since it does not have to behave randomly or track the payouts. Of course, setting the number of attempts to 1 (assuming there's no lower limit) could have the same effect.

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#94

Post by Larrikin »

umvi wrote: post #90

Is it even possible for a "game of skill" arcade machine that dispenses high value prizes to be profitable? Seems like any such game would just breed expert players that clean house and win all the iPads with their skill. If not, surely it would invite some hacker or tinkerer to invent a device to augment their skill and (again) clean house and get a bunch of cheap iPads. Maybe you could have arcade machines where yo…

The luck mechanic could be made obvious.

For example the game where the lights go around a circle and you try to land in front of you for the most tickets could instead have you land the light somewhere and then dice are rolled to determine your actual landing spot.

I'm sure a real game designer could think of something more fun where your skill at the game increases your chances but ultimately luck at the RNG determines your prize.

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#95

Post by userbinator »

nathanaldensr wrote: post #39

How much money is going to be spent on this court case when a five-minute analysis of its software would tell the obvious truth...

In this case even the manual for the machine would be enough to show that it's not purely skill-based.

Also, not enough people know reverse-engineering, much less how software works in general.

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#96

Post by suzumer »

dylan604 wrote: post #82
viraptor wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite as niche as you describe. He figured out how to fairly consistently hit youtube recommendations / top videos. If you use youtube, there's quite a good chance you've seen one of his videos on the frontpage or seen his name a few times, even if you never watched them or aren't interested in his content.

This may be something you haven't considered, but there are ways of using YT with never seeing the front page. Some people don't just "browse" YT, or watch video after video after video following some algorithmically chosen playlist. It is possible to watch a single specific video and then leave the site. Just like you can also read a single tweet without infinitely scrolling through the bedlam.

Please elucidate me as to how you browse hacker news, and then explain how that differs from the method of browsing Youtube you bemoan.

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#97

Post by boomboomsubban »

cwillu wrote: post #43
boomboomsubban wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they illegal or just uncommon because they could be abusable? As if they were illegal wouldn't things like rewards for a hole in one, or "guess" how many the beans in a jar would be illegal? Plus aren't most carnival games technically 100% skill?

"Abusable" is an interesting word choice.

From the view of the business. A pure skill gambling game could cost them all their money.

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#98

Post by batch12 »

suzumer wrote: post #96
dylan604 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may be something you haven't considered, but there are ways of using YT with never seeing the front page. Some people don't just "browse" YT, or watch video after video after video following some algorithmically chosen playlist. It is possible to watch a single specific video and then leave the site. Just like you can also read a single tweet without infinitely scrolling through the bedlam.

Please elucidate me as to how you browse hacker news, and then explain how that differs from the method of browsing Youtube you bemoan.

On youtube- I search for a video, select the result I want, watch it, then leave. I browse hackernews and discover random content.

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#99

Post by jjeaff »

GuB-42 wrote: post #78
Something1234 wrote: post #3

State gaming boards really need to investigate arcades in general. They are much worse than the casino with the same kinds of games, but a much worse payout. I once calculated it out when I was on a bus trip I would get back 70% of what I put in (n=$100). At the arcade you're lucky to get 5 cents back, and most of the time the games are not even fun. We need to put together a team of experts to audit all of these mac…

In the arcade, you get exactly 0% of your money back. You may get a prize though. It is the thing that makes it not gambling. In a casino, there is the risk of spending more than your disposable income, hoping to get your money back. In an arcade, you know that once the money is in the machine, it is gone, less chance to overspend. The main point of anti-gambling laws is to prevent addicts from ruining themselves, no…

I've seen plenty of arcade machines with cash prizes disbursed among the other prizes.

Re: Sega sued for ‘rigged’ arcade machine

#100

Post by gruez »

BrissyCoder wrote: post #76
Aeolun wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cheap plastic with flashing lights and sounds To be fair, kids don’t care about cheap plastic, and they love flashing lights and sounds. Expensive plastic toys have the same flashing lights and sounds. Though I’ll admit that even more expensive wooden toys don’t, they generally still try to incorporate play with light and sound into the toy somehow.

> To be fair, kids don’t care about cheap plastic, and they love flashing lights and sounds. People love all kinds shit that is objectively bad for them... sugar, heroin, gambling, cryptocurrency. > Expensive plastic toys have the same flashing lights and sounds. The cheap adjective was unnecessary.

Sugar isn't "objectively bad" in moderation. Gambling might be bad if you only look at the expected (monetary) value, but if you factor entertainment value it might be okay.
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