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Coming to Terms with Tailwind

johanronsse.be

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Re: Coming to Terms with Tailwind

#91

Post by notyourday »

Wolfr_ wrote: post #36
stanmancan wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a difference between disagreeing and being an ass. If you wanted to engage with them then try to have a conversation. All you did was say how terrible it was and not to use it. Big difference. Nobody owes you their attention.

I agree, but none of those tweets were directed at the authors. They were just talking about Tailwind in general. One was a poor joke. My 3 blog posts were a genuine attempt at trying to dissect what I didn't like about the framework. Many people wrote in to thank me for that perspective. I find it unfair to single out two historical tweets neither of which is directed at the authors.

You do not like their product. They do not care to engage you. Win-win! Except that you need their product and they still do not care about you as a customer.

If you are going to trash my product, I'm absolutely going to block you. If I have a say in what the company that sells that product does, I will absolutely have that company block you.

Re: Coming to Terms with Tailwind

#92

Post by andrewingram »

unknownOrigin wrote: post #68
PhilipTrauner wrote: post #20

> Tailwind UI’s Figma file has the highest level of quality I’ve ever seen in an external Figma file This cannot be overstated. The included Figma file alone is arguably worth Tailwind UI's asking price.

I can't be the only one who hears "Figma" for the first time ever. From a quick google it appears to be an Illustrator like vector format?

There’ll always be people hearing about a thing for the first time.

Figma is quickly replacing Sketch (which replaced Photoshop and Fireworks) as the preferred tool for web and app design, and they’re just raised a round at a valuation of $10B. So it’s a pretty major player now!

Re: Coming to Terms with Tailwind

#93

Post by chuckSu »

sergiomattei wrote: post #43
cldellow wrote: post #14

> Then there comes the point where I have to use Tailwind for work and I am blocked by an offical account and – that feels kind of stupid? Getting blocked by a company entity for having an opinion is kind of… strange? I don't understand comments like this. You still have access to tailwindcss.com for documentation. The company doesn't owe you space in their social media conversations. The company has real customers a…

Yeah, an open source project doesn't have to endure anyone's abuse. That bit rubbed me the wrong way.

What abuse?

Re: Coming to Terms with Tailwind

#94

Post by chuckSu »

lloydatkinson wrote: post #85

> after I wrote a bit of criticism that got popular. Nah, you was just jumping on the bandwagon of hating on Tailwind without even trying to understand the fact you are meant to use components with it. Given that this bandwagon regularly attacks Tailwind (or anything modern in fact) and the fact that you tweeted completely antagonistic and unneeded "refactor tailwind out of your codebase" to someone who was showing a…

I take it you’re a tailwind fanboy?

Re: Coming to Terms with Tailwind

#95

Post by andrewingram »

Wolfr_ wrote: post #61
leephillips wrote: post #26

One sentence in the article suggested that, ideally, people making websites would just learn CSS , but since that‘s an unrealistic expectation (why?), Tailwind can be useful if you have big team of “front-end engineers” who don’t quite understand the markup languages that they use in their jobs. I can’t argue with that. But it suggests that if you work alone or in a small group, actually learning CSS might make more…

I'll try and clarify what I mean here. Tailwind seems to appeal to devs who feel they never fully grasped CSS + design. Because it provides a copy-pastable subset of reliable classes where you end result will look good. As a company we are often hired to fill a knowledge gap (exactly in design and front-end). The nature of agency work is to leave a deliverable for the client to work with. My idea is that when the pro…

Counter-example: I’ve been building with CSS for about 20 years, and am very competent with it, but I’m a fan of the paradigm of atomic styles and eschewing the cascade. I don’t particularly love Tailwind, but a lot of the ideas and reasoning behind it are rock solid.

We need to move past the rhetoric of “Tailwind is for people who don’t know CSS”, when it’s only true in a correlatory sense because the majority of tech is always going to be newcomers. People who are CSS experts are just as capable of concluding that these newer paradigms are worth investing their time in.

Re: Coming to Terms with Tailwind

#96

Post by Wolfr_ »

kjksf wrote: post #84
Wolfr_ wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll try and clarify what I mean here. Tailwind seems to appeal to devs who feel they never fully grasped CSS + design. Because it provides a copy-pastable subset of reliable classes where you end result will look good. As a company we are often hired to fill a knowledge gap (exactly in design and front-end). The nature of agency work is to leave a deliverable for the client to work with. My idea is that when the pro…

Thanks. What I needed today is for a rando on the internet to call me stupid, a dev who doesn't fully grasp CSS + design. I use tailwindcss and so do other devs. Many of those devs are better than me and you. Instead of assuming that everyone who disagrees with your choices is stupid, maybe reflect on popularity of tailwindcss and assume, in an Ockham's Razor kind of way, that it's a good technology. Even if it's not…

I was in no way talking about you, I was talking about backend devs in general who are thankful for something like Tailwind.

Just like I, a front-end dev + designer am thankful for something like Firebase, because my backend skills are fairly nonexistent.

Re: Coming to Terms with Tailwind

#97

Post by [deleted] »

Wolfr_ wrote: post #96
kjksf wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. What I needed today is for a rando on the internet to call me stupid, a dev who doesn't fully grasp CSS + design. I use tailwindcss and so do other devs. Many of those devs are better than me and you. Instead of assuming that everyone who disagrees with your choices is stupid, maybe reflect on popularity of tailwindcss and assume, in an Ockham's Razor kind of way, that it's a good technology. Even if it's not…

I was in no way talking about you, I was talking about backend devs in general who are thankful for something like Tailwind. Just like I, a front-end dev + designer am thankful for something like Firebase, because my backend skills are fairly nonexistent.

[deleted]

Re: Coming to Terms with Tailwind

#98

Post by mgkimsal »

DrBazza wrote: post #54
mgkimsal wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is saying "I don't like tailwind" leading to "I'll write my own webserver"? If tailwind was, magically, the only alternative to hand-rolling everything, perhaps, maybe, but it's not.

My analogy, which seems to be a poor one judging by the downvotes, is that css is lowest level you can get for layout in browser, so it's inevitable that someone will write something of a higher abstraction to simplify it's usage (discoverable with limited class names), give it a particular purpose (consistent scales), and make it reusable. This is exactly what a library (webserver) is written on top of a language of…

The downvotes probably came from your 'all or nothing'. There are, and have been, multiple abstractions at various levels, for years. Implying that if someone doesn't like these particular abstractions, they advocate "build it yourself" is wrong, and that's how it came off.

Re: Coming to Terms with Tailwind

#99

Post by chrisseaton »

croes wrote: post #90
chrisseaton wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where is the problem that justifies blocking? You can block anyone on social media for any reason or no reason at all and you don’t have to justify it to anyone.

You can, but should you? Doesn't that look unprofessional?

If they've decided to block someone, they've probably already decided that they don't care about looking professional to that person.

Re: Coming to Terms with Tailwind

#100

Post by wwweston »

tambourine_man wrote: post #16

> Just like I don’t like React I will probably never really like Tailwind. >But that doesn’t mean that I can’t be a professional and write the best Tailwind code I can if that’s what’s asked of me. This is something that I can’t understand. Maybe it’s just me, but we’re incredibly fortunate to be in a market with huge demand. It’s not like we live in a React only world. You can make a pretty good living writing in wh…

I think you're underestimating the degree to which fashion imposes de facto requirements on day-to-day working conditions.

It's non-trivial to pick up a front-end/full-stack engineering position at this point without having committed to React-specific development. Even knowing a runner-up (Angular, Vue, Svelte, maybe Ember) can put you on the bottom side of probabilities, and not having bought into any big-name framework will likely change your chances by an order of magnitude.

And fashion mismatches are often enough about more than aesthetics -- they're often about the kinds of problems you're well-equipped to regularly solve.

Some fashions build up enough momentum that anyone who doesn't want to solve the problems it introduces (or use its proposed solutions to existing problems) is justified in being worried that the fashion will choose them.

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