How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix? • Hacker News Board

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#91

Post by ascorbic » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 6:22 AM UTC

rudasn wrote: post #79

rudyfink wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The recommendation system, historically (i.e., in the long-long ago of spinning disks), was insanely good. But then Netflix moved to streaming and, as a consequence, its own--and generally less good--content. By analogy, Netflix went from being a sci-fi future of having and being able to recommend on the basis of _everything_, to having a handful of good offerings and a huge amount of b-movie-level offerings. My gut…

There was LoveFilm or something like that in the UK circa 2004 that worked like Netflix did (I think they bought them eventually). The recommendations were pretty good, because I remember we mostly picked what was recommended.

It was bought by Amazon. For several years after that the Amazon Video streaming site and apps were just rebadged LoveFilm.

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#92

Post by koonsolo » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 6:24 AM UTC

I don't get why they wanted to go all out on AI for this. I use Netflix, and a simple algorithm would already be an improvement:

- If I watched a movie and gave it a thumbs down, don't recommend it

- If I watched a movie - If I browsed over a movie 50 times, read the info, and still didn't play it, stop recommending it.

- If I watched the last episode, remove the "new episodes" banner.

WTF

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#93

Post by qbasic_forever » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 6:32 AM UTC

doublescoop wrote: post #90

thom wrote: post #88

Do people feel that Netflix has a large enough catalog that its recommendation system really matters? The only useful feature it ever had for me was the ‘new this week’ category that seems to have been retired.

The company reportedly had 100,000 DVD titles in their catalog, so yeah. Remember how old this contest was.

Their online selection was enormous ~2010 when they still had the DVD business, and crucially all of the movie studies still thought online was a fad and were happy to cut deals to stream their entire catalogs for pennies. Netflix was unbelievable back then and felt like it had every movie in existence. Over the years all of that back catalog has been clawed back and Netflix morphed into more of a showcase for their own content. But for a few golden years it was amazing to go in and like/dislike a bunch of stuff to see it just start recommending and streaming tons of classic films I always wanted to see.

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#94

Post by makeitdouble » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 6:36 AM UTC

bcrescimanno wrote: post #74

makeitdouble wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting how many corporations don't actually "run the numbers" on what we think are important issues. Basically, internal focus and what the rest of the world cares about are disjointed and corps are often blind to obvious aspects. This can be improved by strong internal diversity, but Netflix doesn't look like a bastion of that (yet?) On "just ok" vs stuff actually enjoyable, "just ok" is fine until there i…

Former Netflix employee (2010-2013) here and, if there's one thing Netflix does as well or better than anyone in the industry, it's running the numbers. In particular, in those days, we had two key metrics that were strongly correlated and we would attempt to drive up: Streaming hours and account retention. Higher usage was strongly correlated with account retention to the point that they were the core of nearly ever…

I think these are reasonable numbers to focus on, but other relevant variables could be just too hard to quantify or set as goals...

For instance how Netflix's catalog is attractive to new users/markets can be checked in regular polls, but it would be way more difficult to follow with fine granularity, far less precise, and ultimately a harder to handle number than just retention or number of new accounts.

This means Netflix could see decent growth on its numbers, good retention and a steady flow of new accounts created, while struggling to reach new markets where competitors are doing great.

This is an extreme example, but Blackberry typically had very good user retention and users loved their devices. Looking only at these numbers, they were doing fine for a long time (which is nothing to sneeze at)

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#95

Post by paxys » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 6:38 AM UTC

This prize was the biggest deal in the tech world back in ~2006-2010. They made way more than $1 million back in advertising and engineering recruitment alone, even if they didn't use the winning algorithm at all.

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#96

Post by vletal » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 6:38 AM UTC

koonsolo wrote: post #92

I don't get why they wanted to go all out on AI for this. I use Netflix, and a simple algorithm would already be an improvement: - If I watched a movie and gave it a thumbs down, don't recommend it - If I watched a movie - If I browsed over a movie 50 times, read the info, and still didn't play it, stop recommending it. - If I watched the last episode, remove the "new episodes" banner. WTF

- Do you really get recommenditions for movies you already watched or down voted? I'm not aware of that happening to me. It's not it the case that you use multiple different profiles within a single account? I sometimes see that for shows we finished, yet people tend to rewatch episodes...

- Removing a movie based on "not payed X times" would remove all popular movies for all users in a multiple of X steps.

-I agree with the new episodes banner.

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#97

Post by klausjensen » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 6:40 AM UTC

koonsolo wrote: post #92

I don't get why they wanted to go all out on AI for this. I use Netflix, and a simple algorithm would already be an improvement: - If I watched a movie and gave it a thumbs down, don't recommend it - If I watched a movie - If I browsed over a movie 50 times, read the info, and still didn't play it, stop recommending it. - If I watched the last episode, remove the "new episodes" banner. WTF

Completely agree. I am constantly baffled at the bullshit Netflix suggests me.

I just went to the frontpage of my Netflix and...:

- "My list" recommends 3 series where I have alread watched the last episode

- "Only on Netflix" recommends another two series, I have already wathed.

- A section displayed is "Watch together for older kids" - I dont have kids, never watched any kids stuff on my account.

- "Documentaries" contains six suggestions, 3 of which I have already watched on netflix".

- I am suggested several shows, which are good - but I have already watched outside Netflix earlier - and there is no way to tell Netflix (none that I know of, anyway)

9 out of 10 times when I go to Netflix, I intend to continue watching a series - but Netflix makes me scroll past SEVEN sections of recommendations to get to "Continue watching.." before showing me the series I have watched 1-2 episodes of most days for the past two weeks.

Maybe they are just too busy making sure all new series are woke-i-fied to care about how this simple stuff works?

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#98

Post by szszrk » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 6:41 AM UTC

koonsolo wrote: post #92

I don't get why they wanted to go all out on AI for this. I use Netflix, and a simple algorithm would already be an improvement: - If I watched a movie and gave it a thumbs down, don't recommend it - If I watched a movie - If I browsed over a movie 50 times, read the info, and still didn't play it, stop recommending it. - If I watched the last episode, remove the "new episodes" banner. WTF

In the end they will promote what they WANT to be popular, so our suggested titles will still be a mess of shit we already watched or disliked with a button.

Shows with 10 seasons you hated and disliked after 5 minutes will still be in our "continue watching" or suggested.

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#99

Post by iseanstevens » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 6:51 AM UTC

koolba wrote: post #82

ma2rten wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not the origin of the term. It was coined by Jim Cramer for fast growing stocks.

And before that he had his “four horsemen”: https://www.barrons.com/articles/BL-TB-5933 (Note this article is from Jan of 2008): > In today's trading, all four stocks are down steeply: Apple: Down $26.65, or 17.1%, to $128.99. Amazon: Down $7.56, or 9.6%, to $70.92. Google: Down $48.15, or 8.2%, to $536.20. Research In Motion: Down $8.47, or 9.4%, to $81.61. Even writing off RIMM to zero would give you a healthy retu…

Is that accounting for splits? Apple (for example) has split 28:1 since that time, making the equivalent price today around 4K/share.

Re: How useful was the Netflix Prize challenge for Netflix?

#100

Post by stepbeek » Wed, Jul 07, 2021, 6:55 AM UTC

szszrk wrote: post #98

koonsolo wrote: post #92

I don't get why they wanted to go all out on AI for this. I use Netflix, and a simple algorithm would already be an improvement: - If I watched a movie and gave it a thumbs down, don't recommend it - If I watched a movie - If I browsed over a movie 50 times, read the info, and still didn't play it, stop recommending it. - If I watched the last episode, remove the "new episodes" banner. WTF

In the end they will promote what they WANT to be popular, so our suggested titles will still be a mess of shit we already watched or disliked with a button. Shows with 10 seasons you hated and disliked after 5 minutes will still be in our "continue watching" or suggested.

> In the end they will promote what they WANT to be popular

This is a hugely important point. I'm completely uninterested in most netflix originals, but I understand why they're going to continue to recommend them to me.