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Stepping Back from Speaking

martinfowler.com

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Re: Stepping Back from Speaking

#91

Post by avg_dev »

enriquto wrote: post #54
admissionsguy wrote: post #27

I dropped out of my PhD because I could not stand the pressure of having to do talks regularly. Even though I was pretty decent at it (I was told my delivery was fine and clarity was superb), and sometimes felt good ("powerful" for lack of a better word) while on stage, I would worry for months before every presentation, then basically get physically sick for weeks before, and take some weeks more to recover. Then on…

> I would worry for months before every presentation, then basically get physically sick for weeks before, and take some weeks more to recover. That was exactly me. Fortunately, my PhD advisor noticed the trend and solved it in a severe but functional way. Starting from my second year, I was assigned to teach calculus to first-year computer science undergrads (three groups of about 80 students each). It was absolutel…

This is a great story and I think well of your PhD advisor.

Re: Stepping Back from Speaking

#92

Post by Syzygies »

pbronez wrote: post #90
Syzygies wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Six weeks before my thesis defense, I gave a talk at MIT's combinatorics seminar on Grobner bases. We came up with an abstract intended to attract computer scientists. I was a bit naive about complexity analysis. The computer scientists came, were quite generous and kind to me as a graduate student who didn't know, but they were out for blood when it came to protecting basic concepts. I was asked to explain algebraic…

Organizing an excellent event is hard. There's fundamental uncertainty about what each presenter will say, and what the audience needs to hear. The best you can do is try to think of a high quality theme, get good abstracts from your speakers, and cobble together an agenda tries to cater to your audience. From there, it's a crap shoot. Don't beat yourself up. You were in a no-win scenario. Honestly, the best option m…

Yes. In the years since I've learned that it is better to go off script. Preparation is so one can react, like a tennis match.

After that trial by fire, I've been comfortable before audiences of a thousand multiple times. Once, asked how I became the math consultant for "A Beautiful Mind", I looked out and managed to sell "Every audience is an audience of one".

For anxiety, it helps to remember that public speaking is a cultural ritual. It's not about you, you're playing a role.

When one gives academic job talks, most professors in the room don't understand your subject. What they can tell is whether you listen to questions. How well you answer questions is everyone's best gauge as to how smart you are. If the people who know you are already on your side, the talk itself is a Macguffin. Be truly present at each question, consider it honestly.

Re: Stepping Back from Speaking

#93

Post by wolverine876 »

enriquto wrote: post #54
admissionsguy wrote: post #27

I dropped out of my PhD because I could not stand the pressure of having to do talks regularly. Even though I was pretty decent at it (I was told my delivery was fine and clarity was superb), and sometimes felt good ("powerful" for lack of a better word) while on stage, I would worry for months before every presentation, then basically get physically sick for weeks before, and take some weeks more to recover. Then on…

> I would worry for months before every presentation, then basically get physically sick for weeks before, and take some weeks more to recover. That was exactly me. Fortunately, my PhD advisor noticed the trend and solved it in a severe but functional way. Starting from my second year, I was assigned to teach calculus to first-year computer science undergrads (three groups of about 80 students each). It was absolutel…

> "no! forget about your preparation. The informal explanation you just gave is actually a good first class, just repeat it a bit slowly and call it a day". I knew he was fucking with me just to calm me down, but this actually gave me a confidence boost.

I don't understand why that's 'fucking with you'. Isn't that good, sincere advice?

Re: Stepping Back from Speaking

#94

Post by TaylorAlexander »

admissionsguy wrote: post #27

I dropped out of my PhD because I could not stand the pressure of having to do talks regularly. Even though I was pretty decent at it (I was told my delivery was fine and clarity was superb), and sometimes felt good ("powerful" for lack of a better word) while on stage, I would worry for months before every presentation, then basically get physically sick for weeks before, and take some weeks more to recover. Then on…

Might take some years to recover but I wonder if you might be able to ease yourself in to it on your own terms some time in the future. I’ve been slowly growing my YouTube channel over the course of years and I do it all on my own terms. If I try to increase my output it’s stressful and I do still fret about it, but at least I can always put it away. Some day I may try to use it for revenue but only if I’ve found a way to manage it comfortably.

Re: Stepping Back from Speaking

#95

Post by bloqs »

admissionsguy wrote: post #27

I dropped out of my PhD because I could not stand the pressure of having to do talks regularly. Even though I was pretty decent at it (I was told my delivery was fine and clarity was superb), and sometimes felt good ("powerful" for lack of a better word) while on stage, I would worry for months before every presentation, then basically get physically sick for weeks before, and take some weeks more to recover. Then on…

Extraversion is a relatively plastic personality dimension

Re: Stepping Back from Speaking

#96

Post by willhslade »

panzagl wrote: post #76
jrochkind1 wrote: post #47

> It’s not always been this way. When I was a kid at school I felt none of the fear of public speaking that others talked about. I enjoyed being on stage, and with my loud voice and plenty of confidence, I felt good about being there. That continued to be true once I entered the world of work, and my comfort on-stage did much to boost my career. But over time, this changed. I am very curious about this dynamic, and w…

For many people increased anxiety in general is part of the aging process.

Citation?

Re: Stepping Back from Speaking

#97

Post by mattkrause »

jakobdabo wrote: post #58
admissionsguy wrote: post #27

I dropped out of my PhD because I could not stand the pressure of having to do talks regularly. Even though I was pretty decent at it (I was told my delivery was fine and clarity was superb), and sometimes felt good ("powerful" for lack of a better word) while on stage, I would worry for months before every presentation, then basically get physically sick for weeks before, and take some weeks more to recover. Then on…

Is it really required to do talks? Does that mean that, for example, people who can't speak (muteness and similar disabilities) can not become PhD?

If you were literally unable to give a talk, I suspect accommodations would be made for qualifying exams and thesis defenses; indeed, I would bet this is legally required under the ADA or something similar.

However, giving presentation is an important part of an academic career. As a grad student and postdoc, conferences expand your network beyond people in your lab and department. You might hope that your published work "speaks for itself", but people are people, and putting a face to a name seems to have value above and beyond the intellectual content. Later on, seminars and campus visits are important not only for disseminating your own work and building up a case for tenure, but also establishing collaborations and recruiting future grad students and postdocs to your group.

People certainly make do without giving many talks, but it usually makes things slightly harder and you might need to "hustle" in some other way to compensate: write exceptionally well, lean on colleagues to refer strong students, etc.

Re: Stepping Back from Speaking

#98

Post by pbhjpbhj »

foobarbazetc wrote: post #69

FWIW, these are classic panic attacks. Usually the stressor is obvious, but sometimes it's not and it's something you've left unresolved that your subconscious gets caught up on from time to time. It might not be the talks themselves. It could be anything. If you've never had a panic attack before and start getting these, it literally feels like you're going to die the first time you get one. Then you get used to the…

I started having what I assume are panic attacks 2 years ago, fun! (/s)

They're very different to performance anxiety, for me. With "performance anxiety" basically I sweat and shake, but it's like I'm 'overdosing' on adrenaline. I don't feel bad, per se, but am very conscious of my body because I'm dripping with sweat and my voice starts to break as I restrain the tremors. Public talks, job interviews, that sort of thing sets that off.

Anxiety attacks, for me, are like I'm going to die but it's all in my head no physical aspects at all.

Re: Stepping Back from Speaking

#99

Post by ramphastidae »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #47

> It’s not always been this way. When I was a kid at school I felt none of the fear of public speaking that others talked about. I enjoyed being on stage, and with my loud voice and plenty of confidence, I felt good about being there. That continued to be true once I entered the world of work, and my comfort on-stage did much to boost my career. But over time, this changed. I am very curious about this dynamic, and w…

It may be because when we are younger, we are more ignorant, and ignorance is bliss.

Re: Stepping Back from Speaking

#100

Post by SNosTrAnDbLe »

aksss wrote: post #60

It's normal to have anxiety about public speaking. It's also within reach of most to overcome it. I think taking meds for it is not a good practice at all. It's important to distinguish the fear you may have of speaking in front of people from the fear you may have of presenting incorrect material. If you're giving an instructional speech about a practice/process that's well known with zero controversy, and which you…

I used to be part of debate clubs and made speeches in school and college so for me its not really about early exposure.

Public speaking was always difficult for me. For me the anxiety never truly goes away. That is why I really likes Martin’s post.

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