Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S. • Hacker News Board

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#91

Post by seanmcdirmid » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 11:32 AM UTC

drewcoo wrote: post #10

SkyMarshal wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it makes you feel any better, many US citizens hate it too. It's stupid both to privatize the military, and to provide military training to repressive authoritarian regimes. America and our democratic allies spent half a century fighting totalitarianism, only to turn around and treat the post-Cold War "peace dividend" as carte-blance to sell out everything we had just finished fighting for. Now authoritarianism is…

> spent half a century fighting totalitarianism By destabilizing and ousting democratically elected leaders around the world and replacing them with our puppets? Or do you mean fighting those puppets when they became inconvenient? I suspect what happened is not the history you think it is.

> By destabilizing and ousting democratically elected leaders around the world and replacing them with our puppets

El Saud was put in place as rulers of Saudi Arabia by the British, not the Americans.

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#92

Post by smcl » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 11:38 AM UTC

juki wrote: post #86

smcl wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sure it’s been asked and answered before but is there a realistic alternative to USD for such transactions? I imagine Euros would be the next-best bet, being the second-most traded currency. Edit: While I don’t agree with the person below who replied saying crypto could fill this gap, I don’t think they should be downvoted to the point where we can’t reply. I even hit the “vouch” button but it’s still not possibl…

See the "Political events" section in that wikipedia page.

So back in the 00s Iraq tried to use Euros then got invaded and then reverted to USD. A couple of other near-pariah states (Iran and Libya) have offered to accept Gold and/or Euro but it hasn’t taken off. It’s interesting right enough and should maybe considered a warning to anyone who does think about shifting away from USD, but I’m still curious if there’s even a small amount of consideration given to alternatives today

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#93

Post by dredmorbius » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 11:40 AM UTC

bobsil1 wrote: post #9

SkyMarshal wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For most of recent history they've been a major supplier of oil to the US. https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=m...

They aren’t anymore, are more dependent on US weapons and parts than vice versa

"Major US Supplier" is the shorthand. It's strictly inaccurate, but not a bad first gloss.

The deeper reality is that Saudi Arabia have provided (or occasionally withheld) stability to global oil markets since the early 1970s.

KSA are the world's reserve capacity supplier of oil. Given that world transacts globally and is a highly liquid commodity (in the economic sense), *even where KSA don't directly provide the US with much of its oil, the Kingdom's management of production and leadership in OPEC have a profound impact on global oil and through it, global economic and strategic stability.

There are countries with larger total oil reserves, more exports, and greater production (Venezuela, Russia, and the United States, respectively). Saudi Arabia's strengths are the quality of its oil ("light sweet crude", as contrasted with heavy sour crude from Venezuela, which requires light volatiles simply to extract it from the ground, hence periodic headlines about the US "selling oil to Venezuela", which is more misleading than informative), and the low cost of extraction. Additionally, Saudi Arabia have excess capacity --- their pumps are not running full out --- which means that by increasing or decreasing their supply, they can effectively set global oil prices. (Again: liquid assets, it's possible to move $100 of oil by tanker for about $1 in fuel, making arbitrage and cross-supply highly viable, unlike far less readily handled fuels including coal and natural gas, both of which require special handling.)

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#94

Post by cblconfederate » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 11:58 AM UTC

What is paramilitary training? Working at a butcher's?

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#95

Post by ridiculous_lol » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 11:59 AM UTC

nickik wrote: post #67

pope_meat wrote: post #2

Why is keeping nice with the Saudi family so important? Why does the US government bend over backwards to cover up for them?

Let me give a little more context. Saudi Arabia had a relationship with the US early on and it was US contractors who developed the oil there initially. This is a very old relationship, basically it is the bases of Saudi Arabia, the realized early how powerful to US was and attached themselves. The Saudi were very anti-Communist and opposed Arab nationalist (a 'socialist' type regime) in Egypt. In a period known as '…

> Unfortunately realignment in foreign policy is very difficult. With Israel and Saudi (and co) money continually buying of congress/Washington while Iran and others don't have such powerful lobbying organizations within the US.

At the moment Iran and its proxies are actively threatening the US and its allies. Stopping that will be a prerequisite for any lobbying attempt.

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#96

Post by refurb » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 12:05 PM UTC

drewcoo wrote: post #10

SkyMarshal wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it makes you feel any better, many US citizens hate it too. It's stupid both to privatize the military, and to provide military training to repressive authoritarian regimes. America and our democratic allies spent half a century fighting totalitarianism, only to turn around and treat the post-Cold War "peace dividend" as carte-blance to sell out everything we had just finished fighting for. Now authoritarianism is…

> spent half a century fighting totalitarianism By destabilizing and ousting democratically elected leaders around the world and replacing them with our puppets? Or do you mean fighting those puppets when they became inconvenient? I suspect what happened is not the history you think it is.

Destabilizing oppressive regimens controlled by the Soviets.

Arguably still oppressive after we’re done but better than before.

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#97

Post by ridiculous_lol » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 12:05 PM UTC

baybal2 wrote: post #41

pope_meat wrote: post #2

Why is keeping nice with the Saudi family so important? Why does the US government bend over backwards to cover up for them?

> Why is keeping nice with the Saudi family so important? Why does the US government bend over backwards to cover up for them? Because they spawn outfits who ram airplanes into skyscrapers. I see no logic in this, but some "expert geopolitical strategists" do. Same with Israel, sinks USS Liberty, and then people on the hill go orgasmic, because "higher meaning" — whatever that means. A simpler explanation which seems…

> Same with Israel, sinks USS Liberty, and then people on the hill go orgasmic, because "higher meaning" — whatever that means.

I don't think it's fair to compare Israel with Saudi. The former is a functioning democracy and is ranks significantly better that its neighbors when it comes to Civil liberties.

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#98

Post by refurb » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 12:12 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #83

reducesuffering wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US supporting democracy (or atleast classical liberal enlightenment values that would eventually lead to a functioning democracy) in Vietnam, Iraq, Korea, Syria, Afghanistan, and more has by far been a net negative economic interest. We've paid dearly while Europe mostly enjoyed social welfare benefits.

> classical liberal enlightenment values that would eventually lead to a functioning democracy) in Vietnam That's a strange way to talk about carpet bombing and chemical weapons. Besides, the US lost: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Saigon "The Vietnamese government officially calls it the "Day of liberating the South for national reunification" (Vietnamese: Giải phóng miền Nam, thống nhất đất nước) or "Liberat…

How much do you know about the country post-war? The Vietnamese people paid a very heavy price for the North wining that war. Arguably the communists saw economic light, but plenty of people have been jailed as recently as last year for blogs they’ve written.

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#99

Post by refurb » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 12:14 PM UTC

f6v wrote: post #46

SkyMarshal wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it makes you feel any better, many US citizens hate it too. It's stupid both to privatize the military, and to provide military training to repressive authoritarian regimes. America and our democratic allies spent half a century fighting totalitarianism, only to turn around and treat the post-Cold War "peace dividend" as carte-blance to sell out everything we had just finished fighting for. Now authoritarianism is…

> America and our democratic allies spent half a century fighting totalitarianism Maybe they weren't fighting totalitarianism in the first place.

In America, it’s easy to find a party.

In Soviet Russia, Party finds you!

What a country!!

Re: Saudi Operatives Who Killed Khashoggi Received Paramilitary Training in U.S.

#100

Post by ridiculous_lol » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 12:15 PM UTC

pope_meat wrote: post #2

Why is keeping nice with the Saudi family so important? Why does the US government bend over backwards to cover up for them?

The family calls the shots there and I don't think many people will appreciate a Saudi Arabia which is in a military alliance with Russia or China.

To a considerable extent, the family also ensures a stable leadership and rule of law. A decade back, I would have supported forceful overthrow of the family. However, after observing Arab "Spring" and its implications in Syria and Libya, I am dead certain that I do not want a power vacuum in Saudi Arabia.