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How the government set up a fake bank to launder drug money (2012)

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Re: How the government set up a fake bank to launder drug money (2012)

#91

Post by l33t2328 »

hnbad wrote: post #73
ljf wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man that has taken my breath away. I'm pretty aware of how terrible the west can be (and how we can lie about it) but the sheer volume there is immense.

Worth emphasizing, this isn't "the West", this is just the US. Not that other parts of "the West" don't warrant their own lists, but framing it this way unnecessarily cushions the blow.

This list contains a lot of sensationalized points. It literally has things going back to the 1700’s. With that kind of latitude you could condemn every major country.

Re: How the government set up a fake bank to launder drug money (2012)

#92

Post by astrange »

sneak wrote: post #58
Consultant32452 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s bold to assume the government even wants to nab the big guys. One example is fentanyl is killing us by the thousands every year. We know who the guy is who owns the factor that’s providing most of the fentanyl and precursors to the cartels. He lives in China and runs an also legit chemical factory. He commits the crime right in the main factory in the open. We politely asked China to arrest him, but they…

On average, approximately 7x more people die in the US each day from use of tobacco use than do from use of opiates.

One of the largest causes of death is car accidents, and there's approximately no support for policies that would reduce driving.

Re: How the government set up a fake bank to launder drug money (2012)

#93

Post by l33t2328 »

ljf wrote: post #75
hnbad wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worth emphasizing, this isn't "the West", this is just the US. Not that other parts of "the West" don't warrant their own lists, but framing it this way unnecessarily cushions the blow.

True true, I'm from the UK and so I see us as complicit in some of this but yes the US seems to have a pretty good go at being awful to fellow humans.

You realize that list has events going back to the 1700’s, right?

If you want to talk about countries that have a pretty good go at being awful to fellow humans and we get to go that far back, I don’t think the UK would have an insignificant list.

Re: How the government set up a fake bank to launder drug money (2012)

#94

Post by astrange »

reedjosh wrote: post #36
scarecrowbob wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per the grandparent, yes "marijuana and crack prosecution" have explicitly racist elements. Specifically, the 1930s anti-cannabis is specifically anti-Hispanic, and the question of why there are massively different sentencing laws around crack and powder cocaine seems to me and most of the people I know to have many obvious racial elements.

I love this comment. This is one area where I think crying racism is actually justified. Racism is thrown around as a justification for anything today, but _real_ racist policies like: > different sentencing laws around crack and powder cocaine That persist today are almost never mentioned. Another policy that disproportionally effects blacks: > A mother will receive far more from welfare if she is single than if she…

> Racism is thrown around as a justification for anything today, but _real_ racist policies like: > different sentencing laws around crack and powder cocaine That persist today are almost never mentioned.

There are lots of explicitly racist policies in the US; you can't really understate it. Almost all land use and zoning policies were created out of very explicit racism, as in you can look up anything from city council meeting notes to Supreme Court arguments and they'd just say they did it to keep out black and Chinese people.

Robert Moses built low bridges surrounding NYC to prevent busses from being able to use those roads, and the reason the US has highways running through instead of around cities is literally because the planners wanted an excuse to demolish black neighborhoods. In California it's also the reason there are so many small cities in SF Bay (Palo Alto/EPA and Piedmont/Oakland) and several public parks like in Manhattan Beach.

Re: How the government set up a fake bank to launder drug money (2012)

#95

Post by [deleted] »

elefanten wrote: post #55
TacticalCoder wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone is surprised to find the government does shady stuff, but many of these operations are even acknowledged like Iran-Contra where the government sold arms to the embargoed Khomeini government to generate black money to fund the Contras. Another one, maybe the biggest known one, is when the US sent 12 bn to 14 bn in the form of 100 bills (yup, in bills) using a military plane to Iraq and these bills mostly al…

This comment begs for some sources and citations. Edit: I have a recollection of this incident but certainly not as mysteriously inexplicable and shady as you make it out. There was some context I've forgotten. Your story rings false.

[deleted]

Re: How the government set up a fake bank to launder drug money (2012)

#96

Post by guerrilla »

l33t2328 wrote: post #93
ljf wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True true, I'm from the UK and so I see us as complicit in some of this but yes the US seems to have a pretty good go at being awful to fellow humans.

You realize that list has events going back to the 1700’s, right? If you want to talk about countries that have a pretty good go at being awful to fellow humans and we get to go that far back, I don’t think the UK would have an insignificant list.

It's kind of weird you felt the need to post this whataboutism three times in the same subthread, especially being that your main complaint is that the history is a complete history... I don't think this is the kind of behavior we want on HN.

Re: How the government set up a fake bank to launder drug money (2012)

#97

Post by joe_the_user »

suifbwish wrote: post #19
saul_goodman wrote: post #10

Let's see, so they didn't nab any of the big players in the operation. So effectively they helped the biggest players by making it harder for the small to mid-tier drug cartels do conduct business. Sure, way to put the squeeze on the cartels there... A tangent to this is the way we conduct drug enforcement in the US. It's much better for police departments to wait until after the dealers make money to catch them so t…

You nailed it. You have to let the fruit ripen before you pick it. Also if you don’t go after the suppliers, you will have more distributors to harvest later. It’s literally a cash crop for the DEA/police

I recall there testimony around Operation Fast And Furious where the DEA basically said that they chose a cartel to dominate the trade and busted them once a decade or so.

They justified this on the ground that otherwise, the various factions would be fighting things out. But yeah, this make the DEA effectively the ultimate Mafia boss.

And yet, each vicious step in this vicious game can be justified by a logic that seems reasonable on it's own ("Drugs" should be illegal 'cause of harm of drug use to society, drug dealing should be actually organized by the police 'cause of harm of unfettered drug dealing, the truth should be covered 'cause of harm of not trusting authorities...).

Re: How the government set up a fake bank to launder drug money (2012)

#98

Post by sumedh »

Consultant32452 wrote: post #28
saul_goodman wrote: post #10

Let's see, so they didn't nab any of the big players in the operation. So effectively they helped the biggest players by making it harder for the small to mid-tier drug cartels do conduct business. Sure, way to put the squeeze on the cartels there... A tangent to this is the way we conduct drug enforcement in the US. It's much better for police departments to wait until after the dealers make money to catch them so t…

I think it’s bold to assume the government even wants to nab the big guys. One example is fentanyl is killing us by the thousands every year. We know who the guy is who owns the factor that’s providing most of the fentanyl and precursors to the cartels. He lives in China and runs an also legit chemical factory. He commits the crime right in the main factory in the open. We politely asked China to arrest him, but they…

The US govt didnt give any meaningful punishment to the Sackler family who live in the US for OxyContin, why should they go after someone in China?

Re: How the government set up a fake bank to launder drug money (2012)

#99

Post by iudqnolq »

quickthrowman wrote: post #83
TacticalCoder wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone is surprised to find the government does shady stuff, but many of these operations are even acknowledged like Iran-Contra where the government sold arms to the embargoed Khomeini government to generate black money to fund the Contras. Another one, maybe the biggest known one, is when the US sent 12 bn to 14 bn in the form of 100 bills (yup, in bills) using a military plane to Iraq and these bills mostly al…

> However, evidence before the committee suggests that senior American officials were unconcerned about the situation because the billions were not US taxpayers' money. Paul Bremer, the head of the CPA, reminded the committee that "the subject of today's hearing is the CPA's use and accounting for funds belonging to the Iraqi people held in the so-called Development Fund for Iraq. These are not appropriated American…

It was Iraqi money, but the people spending it were Americans or American controlled. At the point Iraq was under direct occupation control. The fact we saw it as play money because we seized it from the Iraqi government "on behalf of the Iraqi people" and then splashed it around for fun is disgusting.

Re: How the government set up a fake bank to launder drug money (2012)

#100

Post by SignalNotSecure »

iudqnolq wrote: post #99
quickthrowman wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, evidence before the committee suggests that senior American officials were unconcerned about the situation because the billions were not US taxpayers' money. Paul Bremer, the head of the CPA, reminded the committee that "the subject of today's hearing is the CPA's use and accounting for funds belonging to the Iraqi people held in the so-called Development Fund for Iraq. These are not appropriated American…

It was Iraqi money, but the people spending it were Americans or American controlled. At the point Iraq was under direct occupation control. The fact we saw it as play money because we seized it from the Iraqi government "on behalf of the Iraqi people" and then splashed it around for fun is disgusting.

Please don't bring us into this. The American State is not representative of its subjects.
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